Ascent Sector Council

Discussion of in-game politics. Please post "In character" in here, IE as in your game persona or character. This is not for discussion ABOUT the game or about politics in the game, but actual political debate.
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Ascent Sector Council

Postby RAM » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:00 pm

As newly elected president, I would like my first act and efforts to be starting up the Ascent Sector Council (ASC).

council

noun
1. an assembly of persons summoned or convened for consultation, deliberation, or advice.
2. a body of persons specially designated or selected to act in an advisory, administrative, or legislative capacity: the governor's council on housing.
3. (in certain British colonies or dependencies) an executive or legislative body assisting the governor.
4. an ecclesiastical assembly for deciding matters of doctrine or discipline.


A little history. We tried something similar with the Senate. The challenge were two fold from my perspective. One, the turn over of active Pilot Citizens(PC). Two, the complicated voting system. Three, the lack of voice from newly established PC.

I would like to establish the ASC as a support and tool for the President's office. While the next president may develop or use other structures, I will try to structure this so it can be continued if desired, but also for it to end at the end of each term so it does not carry weight to the next president if they choose not to use it.

*********************************************

Here is what I would like to suggest and start discussion on.

1. The president will chair the ASC and guide discussion. My role will be to facilitate discussion and decision making. I will not then choose what I will support and take to the UNCA. I will honor the decisions made and present them as is. If I can not present the ASC decision because of my own ethics or beliefs, I will step down as president.

b. All votes will be taken here using the poll structure. All PC will get one vote. Any Senator can add one vote after the poll closes by disclosing in open discussion how they want their Senator vote to go. This will allow for Senators to have a vote weight of 2 max(if they choose) and any PC who does not yet hold office will have a vote weight of 1.

iii. All discussion and debate will be relaxed and as informal as possible. I do ask that you present yourself in the office you currently hold. Please use your Apollo Sector names and use the Politics rules set up by the UNCA. I will work to keep things respectable of each other. IT IS OKAY TO DISAGREE. We often learn more and grow more from opposing views. Not all votes will go everyone's way. We have to remember that each vote will be one of many we hope to have as we work to organize, and "target" our requests to the UNCA.

Four. I know I only hold this office because NULL could not be found. If NULL does return, I will let the ASC decide if I should step aside or start a coup.


***********************************************

Feel free to start discussions on any of these points. Feel free to suggest additional I am not thinking of right now. Because this is a tool for the president, I will make some of the final decisions on the structure, but will be very open to input.

I think 7 Earth days(54 Apollo Sector days) of discussion will be sufficient to work out the structure. If we seem to not have hashed out all the issues, this can be extended.

Let me know your thoughts and lets get busy!! We have lots of work to do!
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Re: Ascent Sector Council

Postby BoshingTong » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:29 pm

Question!

Will it be one (1) vote per Senate seat you hold or just one (1) for a Senator?
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Re: Ascent Sector Council

Postby RAM » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:04 am

BoshingTong wrote:Question!

Will it be one (1) vote per Senate seat you hold or just one (1) for a Senator?


Not 1 per Senate seat but one if that person holds a Senate position anywhere and wants to openly declare their Senate vote. This will be added after the polls close.
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Re: Ascent Sector Council

Postby klcs77 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:24 am

I do not know how many if any systems have more than one planet Governor I would say that a Governor should have a second vote. While the System Senator should have another vote. So everyone can be heard a PC without title Governor or Senator should have 1 vote. a PC with the Governor title or a Senator without a Governor should have another vote. If you hold both the title of Governor and Senator you should have a 3rd vote. This would be for each planet/system I know people could cheat to get more votes but I think in the end it will all even out.

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Re: Ascent Sector Council

Postby gotpurplefleas » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:17 pm

hi all...o/

I like it...simple...to the point...and fair.

All Hail our glorious President RAM on his first official decision as the Ascent President!

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Re: Ascent Sector Council

Postby Moneyman » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:42 pm

:mrgreen: My focus is the new players and I'm wondering what they'll think about privileges.

ASC strikes me as similar to the American House of Representatives ... a more level form of discussion.

I'm thinking Keep the egos in the Senate and allow our new, yet experienced, players an equal voice.

Ascent Senate is not my kind of hangout ... Those of you in it probably think there is too many in it already. :D
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Re: Ascent Sector Council

Postby Mooncrest » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:11 pm

President RAM, I am in full support of the creation of the ASC as you have outlined it.

I would make a suggestion, that only Senators from systems occupied by colonies owned by multiple Pilot Citizens are allowed the extra vote. and this vote should reflect the decision of the System Council of that system. This should resurrect the System Councils that we tried to organise some time ago and give the Senators from those systems and, therefore, the PCs from those systems additional weight.

It is very easy to get elected to a Senatorial position and this would mean that most experienced PCs would have two votes, reducing the influence of new PCs.

This would also mean that Senators who did not set up a System Council, or who did not abide by the decisions of the System Council, would find it difficult to get reelected.
Last edited by Mooncrest on Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ascent Sector Council

Postby RAM » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:41 pm

Mooncrest wrote:I would make a suggestion, that only Senators from systems occupied by colonies owned by multiple Pilot Citizens are allowed the extra vote.
klcs77 wrote:I do not know how many if any systems have more than one planet Governor I would say that a Governor should have a second vote. While the System Senator should have another vote. So everyone can be heard a PC without title Governor or Senator should have 1 vote. a PC with the Governor title or a Senator without a Governor should have another vote. If you hold both the title of Governor and Senator you should have a 3rd vote. This would be for each planet/system I know people could cheat to get more votes but I think in the end it will all even out.

klcs77


I think you have some good points, the challenge is managing all those vote totals and who gets what and keeping it on the forum voting system. The reason behind giving Senators an extra vote is because they are usually the ones who supply the vast resources for gates that are used freely by all. Long ago, Earth democratic systems struggled because all got one vote, and the have nots voted all the money from the haves and bankrupted the system. It is easy to spend someone else's credits, but when it comes to spending your own, decisions are often metered much more.

I wanted a way to show value and recognition to those Senators who have and do contribute so much for the community. Yet, we need a way to include the brand new PC and have their voice heard. This gives them ownership and connection.

One mistake, I think, was made with the Senate and it's voting system was that it weighted some too much, while not giving voice at all to new PC. I was strongly helping with developing that system. I blame no one but myself for that.

gotpurplefleas wrote:I like it...simple...to the point...and fair.


This is the goal for the structure of the ASC. SIMPLE and fair.

Once a vote is taken, I will have to go back through the thread and manually count each Senator extra vote. If I have to sort out which gets 1 extra vote and who gets 2 extra votes, I will feel overwhelmed and frustrated with the process. I actually agree that there should be some additional weighting of the vote, but know that it will feel very burdensome and tasking. I think this will be okay. I can take the final vote, scroll through the discussion and count the additional proclaimed votes, post that tally along with the poll tally and announce the final vote. Since Senators would have to openly declare their additional vote, it can easily be verified and not appear that I am swaying or changing the final poll vote. This keeps the process transparent.

Moneyman wrote:My focus is the new players(Pilot Citizens) and I'm wondering what they'll think about privileges.


I think it is easy to understand and accept that someone who is established in an area has strong ownership and connection, those a louder voice than someone who just moved into the area. We are actually giving voice a someone who just starts at day one to have a vote. Few structures that has existed through time were so generous.

I, like you, feel that giving that voice is important. It also helps with connection and being vested in the work of Apollo Sector. I know we have had a time of tranquility, but the Neptune Project has shown us that this will not always be the case. In our expansion, we are and will continue to encounter hostiles. I have actually been giving some thought about this this morning and plan to develop a strategic placement of the FG resources, but I digress.

Moneyman wrote:ASC strikes me as similar to the American House of Representatives ... a more level form of discussion.


That is my hope. At one time in the past, when the first gate was being built, we were all in one accord. We are focused and the community as a whole worked together for one common goal. The UNCA was totally surprised at the speed and tenacity of the PC who worked for almost 3 months straight to build that first gate from Prime to Veritas. This is who we still are. We have grown n strength and resources, and it has allowed for each PC to develop their won vision and plan. I think that is healthy too, but we need those unifying goals. I want to develop them again, but I do not want to dictate. This is the purpose of the ASC. We can work together to develop these unifying goals. The ASC is for unifying, not dictating to others. Finding that balance will take work and patience from us all.

Mooncrest wrote:I would make a suggestion, that only Senators from systems occupied by colonies owned by multiple Pilot Citizens are allowed the extra vote.


Again, I agree in concept with much of your suggestions. Implementation is the issue. It takes at least a month (Earth Time) to become a Senator. Usually the first goal of a new Senator is a planned gate. One soon finds out the costs of such things and gives more balance to the expectations of the new Senator.

Mooncrest wrote:It is very easy to get elected to a Senatorial position and this would mean that most experienced PCs would have two votes, reducing the influence of new playersPC.


I think that is realistic to give a new PC a vote, but not give them the weight of an established PC. Balance without being burdensome and complicated. You all know us rAMISH are not real smart. We like to keep things simple and basic. 8-)

Once we get things established and moving, I would be happy to go back and revisit some of the complexity. I fear that we can make it so weighty that we may drag the process to get things started. The first agenda I hope to ratify with the ASC is the T2 pricing. I am excited about getting this progressing and am feeling impatient. Whatever structure we decide on to start can, and most likely, will be amended as we progress.

Yep. I can still post a wall o' text. I guess I can build a wall. :lol:
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Re: Ascent Sector Council

Postby davh62 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:41 pm

FG along with Freight Logistic Corp & galactic waste services are happy to endorse the formation of ASC under the term set out by president RAM.

FG remain committed to the protection of the humankind & are available at the presidents command wherever needed.

I would like to propose a poll/discussion at the earliest convenient/appropriate time with regard to LM pricing changes.
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Re: Ascent Sector Council

Postby Mooncrest » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:43 am

President RAM wrote:
Mooncrest wrote:I would make a suggestion, that only Senators from systems occupied by colonies owned by multiple Pilot Citizens are allowed the extra vote.

Again, I agree in concept with much of your suggestions. Implementation is the issue. It takes at least a month (Earth Time) to become a Senator. Usually the first goal of a new Senator is a planned gate. One soon finds out the costs of such things and gives more balance to the expectations of the new Senator.

What you say is true, but I still feel that limiting the extra vote to Senators of multi-occupancy systems is the way forward. I cite the following reasons:
  • The majority of Pilot Citizens will, after their initial sojourns around the Inner 9 systems, venture out into the Void and establish a colony there. Usually in an otherwise uninhabited system. This means that the majority of active Pilot Citizens will hold the position of Senator.
    • At present the number of fledgling Pilot Citizens is small.
    • The more experienced Pilot Citizens usually are in agreement with each other on any topic of discussion.
    • Therefore, any decision will go in favour of the experienced Pilot Citizens; negating the purpose of including fledgling Pilot Citizens by reducing the effectiveness of their single vote.
  • It will add the weight to the discussion of the more populous systems.
  • It will reduce the number of additional votes that have to be counted.
  • These Senators are only elected at a General Election, so they are already in place. This will be a, mostly, stable situation for the next year (Earth Time). It will not entail work every month (Earth Time) to log which Pilot Citizen has obtained a Senatorial Position.
    • The exception would be if more than one player occupied the same system within the time to the next election. I think that this would be a rare occurrence, unless Pilot Citizens graduated at the same time and stuck together in their activities.
  • It should be simple to determine which Pilot Citizens are eligible for this extra vote: presumably the UNCA has records of the Electoral Results, which, you, as President, can access.
President RAM wrote:I think that is realistic to give a new PC a vote, but not give them the weight of an established PC. Balance without being burdensome and complicated. You all know us rAMISH are not real smart. We like to keep things simple and basic.

It maybe my aged, addled brain, but I think the above gives you the "simple and basic" system you desire, while not presenting the fledgling Pilot Citizen with, what will be, effectively a token vote. The fledgling Pilot Citizen will have the same voting rights as I do, which in my opinion is not a bad thing.

One beneficial side-effect would be to encourage the occupants of multi-occupancy systems to stand for the Senatorial position at election time. At present most of these Senatorial positions are not contested.

Another is that Senators who are reluctant to disclose their Senatorial position are not put under pressure to do so.

I will stress, again, that the extra vote given to these Senators must reflect the communal feeling of the system and not be the Senator's own point of view. In this way, even fledgling Pilot Citizens who have not yet ventured out into the Void, but have started a colony in an occupied system will be get an additional chance to voice their opinion.

PS
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