ASC - T2 Discussion

Discussion of in-game politics. Please post "In character" in here, IE as in your game persona or character. This is not for discussion ABOUT the game or about politics in the game, but actual political debate.
User avatar
User

BoshingTong

Rank

Commander

Commander
Posts

551

Joined

Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:46 am

Location

USA, Pa

Re: ASC - T2 Discussion

Postby BoshingTong » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:07 pm

I think these numbers are much better place to start. I am fairly sure no one has mass amounts of OSB factories that will dump huge amounts of these products on to the market. Unless I am way off I like has the largest facilities for production of bots, MP, elec., and graphene, and my production is not that high even with factories at a level 10 production.

I still think iron is under valued and titanium over valued due to its need but we can start a new topic for T1 changes.

I am good with this to start T2 sales.
Owner of BSFA (Bosh Survey & Freightage Authority)
Senator of Logopolis, New Dawn, Babylon
Governor of Poosh, Tigland, Prime Sun, Babel

Mayor of all BSFA Colonies & OSBs
User avatar
User

Loke

Rank

Commander

Commander
Posts

358

Joined

Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:39 pm

Re: ASC - T2 Discussion

Postby Loke » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:24 pm

RAM wrote:And lastly, I am presenting things for input and discussion. Some are using absolute language and stating they do not support certain things, but are not offering hard numbers .

You want us to present a price list? I can do that... Quickly rambling numbers:
Image
A lot more bold on T2, and not much based on raw materials, but it is the level I fear we need to increase T2 to, for it to be interesting, must be above carb or its pointless. Is it really bad with high prices on T2? I mean how much can we actually produce? If small production, that means its rare, so higher price would work I think?
If some players have large stocks of T2, that is only a minor temporary problem that they earn to much, cant take that into consideration.

There, now everyone can disagree with me instead, so Ram can take a small break before we start complaining about his suggetsions again :D

Ram, can you explain what the "Total Market Increase" part of your sheet is supposed to affect the game? If we had 1000 different items, that number would be really high, even if all of them had low prices

There has been a little to much of me in the forums again, so let me just sum up what I support:
-adding T2
-decreasing carbon with 25, and keep doing this several times on a long term cool down of carbon price.
-T2 is is low production, some need tertiary, low morale on OSB, rawmaterials not producable on all planets, all reasons to be high prices. Would give room for player to player trade of T2 if valuable enough, and indirectly adds cost to colonies/OSBs that consume T2

/Senator Loke

Edit after reading Bosh post: reduce tit to 600, maybe even 550, just above alu. Tit was killed as carb alternative long ago, may as well bury it. I think no one cares about it?
I do not agree on increasing iron, as it is the "massive amount item" and makes sence to be cheap. It is also very easy to mass produce.
Callsign: Fraaggii or Loke
Senator Loke of Primo Spe, 8086, New Horizon, Skadi, Darkfield and Niu Heimar
Statistics for Nio and Tin prices: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3427
no avatar
User

RAM

Rank

Captain

Captain
Posts

817

Joined

Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:36 am

Re: ASC - T2 Discussion

Postby RAM » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:42 pm

I am really hearing what you are saying about T2 and the ability to produce a lot, or lack of ability.

Here is the list with 100% markup.

Image

Loke, some of these come close to what you were saying. I think I am also trying to look at a consistant markup for ease of figuring, but we could, most likely, have differing prices for each.

The Total Market Increase is adding and subtracting all the things we are adding and adjusting. For me, maybe not for you, it gives me an idea of the impact this will have. I don't need to keep saying that I am concerned with the amount of credits in Apollo. This will add to it, but I am hoping the diversity will more than erase any down sides. More will diversify their productions and do more of other things.

Carbon, Ti, alum, and iron prices are more based off of the overall availability of these things in the galaxy. Iron is about everywhere. Aluminium is also, but has almost no use in large quantities in PC lifestyle. I am speculating the UNCA has some unknown use we will find out soon. :lol:

Lastly, these prices are recommendations to the UNCA. if they feel they are out of line, they may reject the entire package. I was not told that, but do not want to create the conditions for it to happen. Politics is a messy business at times.

When I was young, Levi taught me a valuable lesson. He showed me a boulder and told me to move it, I banged and ran into it and did little but get bruised. He then walked over, put a limb under it, placed another small rock right under that limb and slowly, but consistently pressed down. The boulder moved, ever so slowly at first, but with constant leverage, the boulder dislodged and rolled easily.

Quick change is often only temporary. Slow change is often much more permanent. There are lots of things we need to address and work on. If we keep slow gradual pressure, the boulders will roll out of the way. We also will not over shoot and create more issues to be worked on. Just like Carbon priceing, if we start too high, lowering them will cause great pain to someone. It is easier to increase as we go, then to reduce.

I think the 100% markup is too high, but am willing to consider it. If you all are willing to bring it down a bit, we can start there and see how it goes.
"The UNCA is not your boss!" ~ Jessica Steele
Fan Fiction from an old timer - RAM Memories
User avatar
User

davh62

Rank

Commodore

Commodore
Posts

1380

Joined

Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:40 pm

Location

UK

Re: ASC - T2 Discussion

Postby davh62 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:24 am

I'm going to say no more on this subject. Certainly we will never all agree methinks. But I will go with the majority once the president puts forward the final draft.
FG Fighters Guild Founder
Senator of Ferrite-Senator of Prime-Senator of Barons Rest- Hater of rams speaking date stamp
User avatar
User

Loke

Rank

Commander

Commander
Posts

358

Joined

Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:39 pm

Re: ASC - T2 Discussion

Postby Loke » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:52 am

RAM wrote:I am really hearing what you are saying about T2 and the ability to produce a lot, or lack of ability.

Here is the list with 100% markup.

Image

Loke, some of these come close to what you were saying. I think I am also trying to look at a consistant markup for ease of figuring, but we could, most likely, have differing prices for each.

----

I think the 100% markup is too high, but am willing to consider it. If you all are willing to bring it down a bit, we can start there and see how it goes.


Yeah, 1600 for graph is too much. But 275 for electronics isnt enough for anyone to care, I fear. And my list was more a level of at what price each T2 gets interesting for traders (both player to player and to i9). But just my quick thougths and I wanted to bring some numbers since you asked. For introducing T2 it could be better with a lower price like you suggest and increase those that needs along the road.

I have tried to find a consistent markup/formula to make T2 prices, and base them on more than just raw mat cost. Was thinking something along the line of number_of_workers * cost_per_worker / production_of_factory + tertiary_cost + raw_mat_cost + T2_profit, but arent able to make it work. Not sure the raw mat cost should be i9 prices, as raw mat that are stored at colonies/OSBs have lower value than when they are sold at i9 (most of the value comes from player hauling it to i9).

I dont look at T2 as adding more mass production items similar to T1, its more something between T1 and i9 contracts. Contracts have limited amount you can sell, T2 has limited production but can sell unlimited and T1 barely has limits to production.

Either way, I support adding T2 at any price.
Callsign: Fraaggii or Loke
Senator Loke of Primo Spe, 8086, New Horizon, Skadi, Darkfield and Niu Heimar
Statistics for Nio and Tin prices: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3427
no avatar
User

RAM

Rank

Captain

Captain
Posts

817

Joined

Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:36 am

Re: ASC - T2 Discussion

Postby RAM » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:16 pm

Loke wrote:I have tried to find a consistent markup/formula to make T2 prices, and base them on more than just raw mat cost. Was thinking something along the line of number_of_workers * cost_per_worker / production_of_factory + tertiary_cost + raw_mat_cost + T2_profit, but arent able to make it work.


Yea. I did not want to think that hard. I tend to try to keep things simple. Too much effort to think through all the costs and effort to do something.

I don't think there will be high levels of things like electronics, but things like Graphene, beer, wine, cigars, Bas Med, and such, I think PC will start gearing up and producing massive quantities over time. Carbon Barons were not made in a day. I know myself, I will start increasing my OSB production, which is next to 0 right now. Once we get the hospital import issue corrected, we will see them worth the effort to produce. Right now, there are some other PC who have already produced massive amounts of the T2 and they are just sitting in warehouses. I can easily see some who really like to build ramping up their production ... and voting power :shock:

Okay, 100% is too high. Lets take a look at 50%.

These seem more in line to me.

Image

Now to totally throw a wrench into things...

I was thinking about food prices last night. Minerals are on almost every planet. Easy to find. Why would they be so much higher than food, which is much rarer to find on planets, AND in need by the UNCA to feed the refugees still in the Inner9?

I think food prices are way out of whack. I think this would take some serious negotiation with UNCA to totally address this issue. While most food types are higher then iron, most are below Aluminium, which feeds no one.

If we were looking at a free market economy, we would see food and mineral prices just about flipped. DO we want to try to press this issue, ignore it, or slowly work to balance out the needs of Apollo with the prices of the LM?
"The UNCA is not your boss!" ~ Jessica Steele
Fan Fiction from an old timer - RAM Memories
User avatar
User

BoshingTong

Rank

Commander

Commander
Posts

551

Joined

Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:46 am

Location

USA, Pa

Re: ASC - T2 Discussion

Postby BoshingTong » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:41 pm

Mr. President can we please pick one topic for this discussion. I agree we need a change to food prices, T1 mats, but we are wanting to get T2 start and is what this discussion is about. I would ask that we stay on take here and start a new Discussion for each of these also important topics.
Owner of BSFA (Bosh Survey & Freightage Authority)
Senator of Logopolis, New Dawn, Babylon
Governor of Poosh, Tigland, Prime Sun, Babel

Mayor of all BSFA Colonies & OSBs
no avatar
User

RAM

Rank

Captain

Captain
Posts

817

Joined

Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:36 am

Re: ASC - T2 Discussion

Postby RAM » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:47 pm

BoshingTong wrote:Mr. President can we please pick one topic for this discussion. I agree we need a change to food prices, T1 mats, but we are wanting to get T2 start and is what this discussion is about. I would ask that we stay on take here and start a new Discussion for each of these also important topics.


Well, they are linked and will be presented at the same time to the UNCA. If we felt we should bring up food prices a bit, we could do it now with the T2 commodities. Their price does affect T2 if we figure in raw material costs to T2, which is prudent to do.
"The UNCA is not your boss!" ~ Jessica Steele
Fan Fiction from an old timer - RAM Memories
User avatar
User

BoshingTong

Rank

Commander

Commander
Posts

551

Joined

Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:46 am

Location

USA, Pa

Re: ASC - T2 Discussion

Postby BoshingTong » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:46 pm

RAM wrote:
BoshingTong wrote:Mr. President can we please pick one topic for this discussion. I agree we need a change to food prices, T1 mats, but we are wanting to get T2 start and is what this discussion is about. I would ask that we stay on take here and start a new Discussion for each of these also important topics.


Well, they are linked and will be presented at the same time to the UNCA. If we felt we should bring up food prices a bit, we could do it now with the T2 commodities. Their price does affect T2 if we figure in raw material costs to T2, which is prudent to do.


You can pass them to the UNCA as 1 thing but can we discuss them as sperate topics. Some people are not happy with RAW T1 mats. I would like two separate votes. T2 almost has consensus but we are a ways from T1. They may affect each other but they are 2 separate things. It is possible we will not get consensus on the T1 changes, so I recommend making it two separate topics and votes.
Owner of BSFA (Bosh Survey & Freightage Authority)
Senator of Logopolis, New Dawn, Babylon
Governor of Poosh, Tigland, Prime Sun, Babel

Mayor of all BSFA Colonies & OSBs
User avatar
User

Loke

Rank

Commander

Commander
Posts

358

Joined

Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:39 pm

Re: ASC - T2 Discussion

Postby Loke » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:29 pm

This is the best I could come up with using one formula for all T2 for consistency, its a lot better than the fast and random list I made first.

Makes more of the OSB T2s worth while (adds more diversity in trading) and are based on some real cost/efficiency numbers. Colony T2s is lower do to higher possible prodution and if there is a future food price increase it wouldnt make the T2 price go skyrocketing.

Image
Alu was kept to 400 to avoid robots almost being worth as much as graphene
I counted needed infrastructure (power, universities etc) on OSB/colony into worker cost


I would really like to hear more peoples opinion of what level T2 prices would be best (not T1 or food, lets take those discussion in a different thread)

/Senator Loke
Callsign: Fraaggii or Loke
Senator Loke of Primo Spe, 8086, New Horizon, Skadi, Darkfield and Niu Heimar
Statistics for Nio and Tin prices: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3427
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | Style by KomiDesign | Modified by Chris Valleriani
cron