ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

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ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby RAM » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:04 pm

Along with the T2 items, and adjusting some of the pricing at the Local Markets, I would like to suggest we get the UNCA to double the class 6 through 10 ship prices in the SS Shipyards. We have some PC working to build that size ship and it is hard to compete with the low prices of these ships. They are somewhat rare in the shipyards, so it would make sense that they would be more expensive.

By increasing the SS Shipyard prices, this gives a window for some newer PC to get into the ship building career and be able to do it profitably, since they can salvage the BP instead of buy the class 11 and above which are pretty pricey for a newer PC.

My suggestion of doubling the SS prices of these ships is a starting point for discussion. Please feel free to share your thoughts and opinions.
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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby Moneyman » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:34 pm

:mrgreen: You do know that lowering n/t from $100k to 50k per tonne would also double the price, effectively.

I know, not going to happen. Then maybe more players carry a class 6-10 ship inventory like you and I and a few others.

Bartering class 6-10 ships for mined n/t would go a long way to encourage n/t mining.

Especially if the $$$ ship price was higher than 130% of the n/t used in building the ships.
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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby davh62 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:05 pm

Agreed Ram. x2 UNCA pricing is needed for those class ships.
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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby gotpurplefleas » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:25 pm

Hi all...o/

I think this would make it very difficult indeed for new players to get an early handle on their gameplay...I never had a problem one selling for shipyard prices for...ever
...and I disagreed with higher shipbuilder prices for small ships. I think bigger ships should be priced much higher than they currently are, because older players have the funds to support themselves and don't need a hand trying to get started, but not little ships...That only hurts the little guy.

Sorry about the contention here, but I think this is even more important to get correct than T2s. I do not agree that the early gamer gets it too easy...and I am of the opinion that late gamers should always keep this in mind when making decisions that quell or quench enthusiasm in the early game environment.

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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby LadyHawk » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:40 pm

I have, in discussions this evening, been trying to enlist another Senator to voice the opinions we share on this topic but it seems to have fallen on me to take the voice of dissent publicly, once again. (I swear I'm not trying to entirely reverse my position from professional cheerleader to professional naysayer :-P)

Much as I agree with President Ram's intention to encourage new PC's to engage in ship building as a profession, I have to disagree with the plan to raise ship prices at the Inner Cluster shipyards as the incentive. We DO desperately need more ship builders, but as Senator Fleas has already pointed out, new PC's already face a significant challenge to come up with credits enough to buy the first few ship upgrades. We don't need to completely overwhelm them before they even get a chance to taste success in the Cluster.

I think, as Senator Rhavenwing has already pointed out, the temptation for more seasoned PC's here to 'help out' new arrivals with outright gifts of new ships is a major contributing factor to the problems we face in selling ships for reasonable prices later on. To be sure, I have been as guilty as any of us in wanting to be a hero in demonstrating what a wonderful community we are here....but we still can be without taking away from new arrivals the sense of having worked toward earning their own rewards here. We can provide answers to questions, hints and advice all we want...and that is still far more than most any online community I've ever known previously has to offer. But the new arrivals will still benefit much more in the long run if we allow them to earn their own credits to buy their own upgrades, and gain a sense of investment in the game they wouldn't have without having done so.

To encourage interest in ship building as a profession, then, perhaps we should work on a new model for pricing of ships class 11 and up that has a significantly higher profit margin. (A class 10 Mammoth with HD is the widely recognized minimum needed to be able to experience the entire realm of possibilities here...therefore, I think that prices for that much should be left alone) How much profit in building class 11 ships and above, or what other kinds of incentives we might offer other potential professional ship builders to pursue that as a career is a subject for further investigation and discussion.

But, in summary and conclusion, I do not support the doubling of prices for ships in the Inner Cluster Starbases at this time.
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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby RAM » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:43 am

LadyHawk wrote:I have, in discussions this evening, been trying to enlist another Senator to voice the opinions we share on this topic but it seems to have fallen on me to take the voice of dissent publicly, once again. (I swear I'm not trying to entirely reverse my position from professional cheerleader to professional naysayer :-P)

Much as I agree with President Ram's intention to encourage new PC's to engage in ship building as a profession, I have to disagree with the plan to raise ship prices at the Inner Cluster shipyards as the incentive. We DO desperately need more ship builders, but as Senator Fleas has already pointed out, new PC's already face a significant challenge to come up with credits enough to buy the first few ship upgrades. We don't need to completely overwhelm them before they even get a chance to taste success in the Cluster.

I think, as Senator Rhavenwing has already pointed out, the temptation for more seasoned PC's here to 'help out' new arrivals with outright gifts of new ships is a major contributing factor to the problems we face in selling ships for reasonable prices later on. To be sure, I have been as guilty as any of us in wanting to be a hero in demonstrating what a wonderful community we are here....but we still can be without taking away from new arrivals the sense of having worked toward earning their own rewards here. We can provide answers to questions, hints and advice all we want...and that is still far more than most any online community I've ever known previously has to offer. But the new arrivals will still benefit much more in the long run if we allow them to earn their own credits to buy their own upgrades, and gain a sense of investment in the game they wouldn't have without having done so.

To encourage interest in ship building as a profession, then, perhaps we should work on a new model for pricing of ships class 11 and up that has a significantly higher profit margin. (A class 10 Mammoth with HD is the widely recognized minimum needed to be able to experience the entire realm of possibilities here...therefore, I think that prices for that much should be left alone) How much profit in building class 11 ships and above, or what other kinds of incentives we might offer other potential professional ship builders to pursue that as a career is a subject for further investigation and discussion.

But, in summary and conclusion, I do not support the doubling of prices for ships in the Inner Cluster Starbases at this time.


Et Tu Brute?

:lol:

A player can climb through class 6-10 ships quite quickly and easily even with doubling the prices. It is hard for new ship builders to get interested when they can much easier do many other things that profits them much more. Again, I am aiming for balance, not restriction or high profits. If a 50% increase would feel better as a first step, I am fine with that also.
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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby davh62 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:22 am

Credits have never been easier to get for new players. Changing the pricing for those low level ships makes very little difference to their progress. Clearly if you do the math those ships are off wack in terms of pricing atm. Back when I started gated systems were few/rare & it took me 3 months to get into the seraph, the top ship of the day. When I did, it was turned into a cheese wedge :lol: . Some of you will remember that Jam April fools prank.

What RAM is trying to achieve with his policies is to not only balance but try to increase new player longevity, This has been a huge problem for a long time. We have all seen how fast they progress to a Lev. One current newbie has been in game 3 days & already has a class 8, in another week they will be in a Lev. I think they get thorough the game too fast, get bored & quit. There is no time for them to fully learn how deep the game is & appreciate achievements/ mechanics.

I voted for RAM because I wanted change(along with shoo fly pie). I suspect many of you voted for the same reason. We mustn't be afraid to make those changes. It shakes things up from the current stagnation that many vets have felt for many months. I would suggest giving it a go because it can easily be changed back.
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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby LadyHawk » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:59 am

President Ram and Senator Davh, with all due respect, what do you base your conclusion, that its too easy for new arrivals to get ships through class 10, on?

If a recent arrival has managed to obtain a class 8 ship in 3 days, I submit that its likely either someone gave him one along the way or that he has been playing day and night to get that far so quickly.

I was a new arrival here much more recently than you two and I didn't think it was so easy to get up to that first Mammoth. Senator Fleas has even more recently invited some of his relatives here and closely observed their experience (OOC: Started alt characters to see what its like to be a noobie these days) and he maintains it is not too easy.

That is the evidence I base my concerns on.
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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby RAM » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:40 pm

LadyHawk wrote:President Ram and Senator Davh, with all due respect, what do you base your conclusion, that its too easy for new arrivals to get ships through class 10, on?

If a recent arrival has managed to obtain a class 8 ship in 3 days, I submit that its likely either someone gave him one along the way or that he has been playing day and night to get that far so quickly.

I was a new arrival here much more recently than you two and I didn't think it was so easy to get up to that first Mammoth. Senator Fleas has even more recently invited some of his relatives here and closely observed their experience (OOC: Started alt characters to see what its like to be a noobie these days) and he maintains it is not too easy.

That is the evidence I base my concerns on.


The ship pricing at the SS is based on Nio/Tin pricing of about 20k per ton of nio and about 8k per ton for tin. Watch the SS contract prices paid for nio and tin. They have never been altered. Lower class ships do not take a lot, but they do take some and a LOT of time to build. Keeping the ships locked in price means that current prices are pretty much ignored. Not fair for any beginning ship builder.
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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby BoshingTong » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:11 pm

I agree with RAM in that a change needs to be made. Prices should reflect the going rate for Nio/Tin. No one is selling Nio for 20K or tin for 8K. I am buying at 100K each. If the UNCA has a stock pile of it that they just want to get rid of, they should just give it to us, rather than sending us out to mine it. No, a price change is a good call.

In order to change prices, ship cost has to change to match. The prices on big ships are about right based on mat costs. The little ships have to change as well.
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