ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Discussion of in-game politics. Please post "In character" in here, IE as in your game persona or character. This is not for discussion ABOUT the game or about politics in the game, but actual political debate.
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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby RAM » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:12 am

LadyHawk wrote:I'm glad you posted again Davh...you are way ahead of me in the realm of politics and I refuse to duck out LOL

I still wish we could hear from Moon and other parties interested in pursuing shipbuilding as a substantial part of their game play before we take this discussion much further...but in the meantime....

If Jam is planning to move away from a subscription basis and into more of a pay as you go plan, I'm guessing a major candidate for stuff you'd pay for along the way would be ship upgrades. Doesn't that, perhaps, make this whole discussion moot? If Jam is going to sell ships at his own set RL prices...are we going to try to compete with HIM ingame?

Maybe we should wait to see more details of his game sales plan before we mess with shipyard prices in the current model?

Interesting thought. I had not heard he was going to sell ships for money. I was understanding things like Solar Credits and other non important things in game. I will check with him about this for clarification. Best to know ahead of time.
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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby Moneyman » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:44 am

:mrgreen: Been too busy, lately, to review the most recent forum postings tho comments in this thread are well thought out.

My shipbuilding strategy is to create a ship inventory for class 6-10 and class 11-15 ships.

Class 6-10 bought and fitted with HD to assist new players just starting out in Ascent.

Class 11-15 ships meant to be purchased at (4+) volume discount ... supplement PC ship inventories.

Frankly, I don't care about making a $$$ profit ... Just want to increase my exotic mat inventory using barter.

... My main objective is to encourage enough exotics mining that the $$$ per tonne starts falling.

... Smaller ship sales increase my n/t inventory to build Ophan and Leviathan ship inventory for (4+) volume sales.

I would like to encourage any PC, with the relaunch in mind, to consider volume ship sales as a game profession.
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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby Mooncrest » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:43 pm

Sorry, guys, I've been zoned out for a few days.

As this subject is so very close to my heart I have to chip in with my contribution.

I did an anallysis of the NPC ship prices for a discussion on Nio/Tin pricing:
Image
As you can see, given a 30% margic, if we base the ship cost on the Tin/Nio material prices you can see that far from 20k and 8k he price for Tin and Nio varies from 18k to 78k per unit.

If budding shipbuilders are going to make a profit on Class 6 to 10 ships then they have two options:
  • buy inexpensive ships from the NPC Shipyard when you find them and sell at the recommended price
  • mine the Niobium and Tin for themselves

The community is very good at helping new players, I believe that every new player will learn very quickly that Tin and Niobium are very lucrative commodities to mine and will have been told where to find the best deposits. If we look at the current prices objectively, A Class 6 ship is 30 units of Tin/Niobium; with a Class 5 ship mounting a Class 5 MB it should not take a long time. Now that they have double the cargo capacity the next step; 80 units of Tin/Nio, should not take much longer; and so on...

LadyHawk has raised a significant t point, the community can be too helpful: giving away ships, even giving them away and then requiring payment later, has got to detract from the sense of achievement a player gets when s/he has generated enough cash to make a ship purchase, and let us be very aware that getting to fly the next Class of ship is the Ascent.equivalent of gaining a level in an RPG.

However, LadyHawk, I think that prices for Class 6 to 10 ships do have to rise. A 50% rise now will put the Mammoth on a par(ish) with the my price for a Guardian. 50% on a Squid will lengthen the time it takes to gain that ship without the gap between that an the Falcon getting too great; thus lessening the perception of a price barrier.

I think we have to apply the same price rise across the board to maintain the differentials, because if we do not a major price gap will appear.

gotpurplefleas wrote:I think bigger ships should be priced much higher than they currently are, because older players have the funds to support themselves and don't need a hand trying to get started...

I would be very interested in seeing your actual numbers on this, fleas.
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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby RAM » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:24 pm

Thanks for your input Mooncrest. Good stuff.

I will give this 2 more days then set up a vote for a 50% increase in SS Shipyard prices. This gives us the 7 day discussion time. There can still be more discussion during the 7 day voting window also.
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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby LadyHawk » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:41 pm

If Moon recommends the price increase, I bow to the master and support it as well.
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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby Loke » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:54 pm

How about increasing the ship price based rise per class?
Image
Should even out the increased challenge of upclassing between all the 6-10 ships. Also avoids a big jump between 5 and 6 or between any other classes.

I dont have an opinion on if increased prices are good or not, I just like looking at numbers. I do like that the gap between class 10 and 11 gets smaller though, easing the transition for new players from ships available at inner SS shipyards to the player made ship market.
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Statistics for Nio and Tin prices: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3427

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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby TEKnome » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:55 pm

I have been buying Mammoths for some time. A lot of Mammoths.
Surprisingly, perhaps, I am supportive of a price increase for Class 1-10 :-)
I could see myself paying 300,000,000 - 350,000,000 for a Mammoth, and still call it a Fair Price
375,000,000 I would start to hesitate, before buying.

Cheers :-)
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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby RAM » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:01 am

I think that the 15% increase is not realistic to the increase of nio/tin pricing. Also, with the rarity in the shipyards, it should drive up the price a bit. We should leave a wide margin for ship makers to compete.

I have seen mammoths for 165m in the shipyards. I am looking at adding 50% to the base list price. I assume it would be around that price.

50% increase would set the base to 247M. I have seen mammoths close to that price in the shipyards. Maybe not quite that high, but 220m for sure.

I think the 50% increase for all class 6-10 is a good starting point to make their prices more realistic and high enough to give shipbuilders a window to make a good profit for the time involved. Except for the increase of materials, it takes close to the same amount of time investment to build a class 6 as a class 15. One has to produce and fit all the modules in each ship then transport it to a SS to sell. Lots of effort. There needs to be a fair profit.
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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby Loke » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:05 pm

RAM wrote:I think that the 15% increase is not realistic to the increase of nio/tin pricing. Also, with the rarity in the shipyards, it should drive up the price a bit. We should leave a wide margin for ship makers to compete.

I have seen mammoths for 165m in the shipyards. I am looking at adding 50% to the base list price. I assume it would be around that price.

50% increase would set the base to 247M. I have seen mammoths close to that price in the shipyards. Maybe not quite that high, but 220m for sure.

I think the 50% increase for all class 6-10 is a good starting point to make their prices more realistic and high enough to give shipbuilders a window to make a good profit for the time involved

:?
I dont understand what you mean by those numbers and what the % is refering to.
Care to give a list of 6-10 pricing the way you suggest increasing? Either with a avarage price for each class like in wiki or a price range each class could potentially be sold for at i9 SS, would be nice to see what you mean.
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Statistics for Nio and Tin prices: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3427

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Re: ASC - Shipyard Price Discussion

Postby RAM » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:51 pm

Loke wrote:I dont understand what you mean by those numbers and what the % is refering to.
Care to give a list of 6-10 pricing the way you suggest increasing? Either with a avarage price for each class like in wiki or a price range each class could potentially be sold for at i9 SS, would be nice to see what you mean.


Again, I am lazy. I was figuring on asking UNCA to increase their base prices for cl 6-10 by 50%. I do not know what the base prices are for each, but suspect it is about a variable 40% maximum markup off the base price.

We can get into the tall grass and hammer out numbers for each, but not sure that will really matter a lot overall. Nio and tin costs more. Ships should cost more. Most expensive mats in ship construction outside of time is nio and tin. Nio and tin are 400% above the SS contract prices. These are what the SS Shipyard prices were built from. I don't think increasing the base price by 50% will hurt a lot nor affect PC lifestyle. I do think it can be a step towards shipbuilders time investment.
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