ASC - Mining etiquette guidelines

Discussion of in-game politics. Please post "In character" in here, IE as in your game persona or character. This is not for discussion ABOUT the game or about politics in the game, but actual political debate.
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Re: ASC - Mining etiquette guidelines

Postby Zaq » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:42 pm

Mooncrest wrote:I take on board Zaq's comment on new asteroid fields. There is, however, good reasoning behind this . If the asteroids were larger then there would be a frenzy to find new fields and not nurture existing ones; why bother waiting when you can find a ready-made field?


I didn't explain that as well as I could have. I didn't mean for the fields to have full growth, just to a level that would encourage mining them. That could be a couple of weeks, a month or months of growth, depending on how fast they grow and what would deemed to be a satisfactory balance. A new player can have a Leviathan within the first week or two without help. Give them a reason to explore, discover new systems, find useful asteroid fields and actually be able to mine them.

While building a good balance with some sort of growth of undiscovered fields, even if there were a frenzy to find new fields - why would that be bad? There is an exploration component to the game. There are a "few" undiscovered fields out there... The players that are building colonies and OSB's to advance their trade empire would prefer to have their nurtured fields and continue to use them, but would be less likely to have to worry about raiders.

I haven't even started a settlement yet, much less a colony, because I am more inclined to explore. I do appreciate those who are building trade empires though! :D I just find it disappointing to visit new systems and their asteroid fields -- and I can't do anything with them for "x" amount of time. That could be part of the reason that new explorer type players don't stick around.
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Re: ASC - Mining etiquette guidelines

Postby Mooncrest » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:25 pm

IZaq, maybe I was a little hasty. Perhaps you can store this idea for when Jam is able to take on board new features again.
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Re: ASC - Mining etiquette guidelines

Postby Zaq » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:12 am

I'm not big on making suggestions - I think that game developers should be able to build their vision. But, I will definitely present this idea if the chance arises. :D
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Re: ASC - Mining etiquette guidelines

Postby Loke » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:31 pm

Mooncrest wrote:
Loke wrote:The problem as I see it is that new players cant know this, and therefor som guidelines is good. But shouldnt the same guidelines apply to us older players, just to be fair? Even though we know how to avoid the issue that created the need for them in the first place?

This is the dilemma that I think passing responsibility to the MINERS Guild will solve.

That could work, personally I would not take on the responsibility of "distributing" these fields, but if MG is willing to advise miners to fields they can mine it would be helpful I think. But I advise against making MG a "authority" of where players can mine, try keep it more as a service of advice.

Personally I will not join MG do to political reasons :P

Creating lists of inactive or active players is to high risk in my opinion (in the worst times of raiding showing up in chat was bad enough), and could heat up discussion around the topic as it gets almost personal when its specific to a player name. I do not feel comfortable to put my name on any such list.

RAM wrote:Etiquette is much different then rules, and a lot harder to spell.

Yes, and I have used rules instead as it migth be read as that for some new players, no matter how you put it. I do support that some explanation is added to wiki, as it will make it easier for the players that does not want to upset others to know what do and avoid.

RAM wrote:If they find a few, I doubt they can find many from one PC

Unfortunately there is ways to raid every field of one account, fortunately its not known by all and I advise all not to share how, as I think it shouldnt be possible.

Zaq wrote:From a new player's perspective: What I find hard to understand is that asteroids sitting in undiscovered systems have zero growth.

This has been suggested before, but not as well thougth out as you did I think. What if newly explored fields are randomly aged up to 1 month? That will be enough for newer players to be encouraged to go out and explore to find fields to mine, but not too much which would be too easy access for older players. If new players are encouraged to explore fields shortly after they get bigger ships, they will also have aged when the player have been in game for a while, removing some of the need to raid others.

Mooncrest wrote:Soon, of course the Mixed Fields will become totally unproductive because the 'good' 'roids have all turned into 'junk' 'roids.

Unfortunately its too time consuming and high risk of raiders to make it worth the effort of cleaning up mixed fields.

Mooncrest wrote:Finally, what do we do with the Red Zone? I think that the Red Zone should be included in the Free Zone. PCs who have set up there are aware of the fact that they can be in conflict with other PCs, so it seems logical that the first conflicts should be over mineral rights.

Agreed, and it migth decrease raid issues in the rest of the galaxy, if those that doesnt like the rules can go to RZ and do what ever they wish, without elite players telling them what to do.

Mooncrest wrote:Indeed we must remember that most of our new PCs will have migrated here from an environment where conflict is the norm. It must be difficult for them to accept that we are a peaceful, co-operative community.

It can take some time to understand and learn it, yes. And some damage can be done to others during that "learning" periode. I remember my first week, I saw it as good business to buy cheap MB on the GM and put it up for a higher price, until I understood how things work and how that was a bad thing and not just a economical risk for me that could be a profitable trade.

Mooncrest wrote:also, to explain the reasons for them

That I think is very important, as it could be the differance between what new players see as helpful information and not arrogant rules set by elites in the game.


Thx to all for the well reasoned posts in this thread, it has answered my questions. I will go back to following the etiquette. I do have enough fields to supply my own needs, but I am not motivated to mine my own fields to sell for credits on the open market.
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Re: ASC - Mining etiquette guidelines

Postby Mooncrest » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:26 pm

I have rewritten my initial Guidelines to, hopefully, take into account the discussion in this thread.

Asteroid Mining Etiquette
Theres no mechanism for allowing a Pilot Citizen(PC) to make a claim on any real estate except space on planetary surfaces for colonies. This means there are no regulations covering who can harvest the asteroids in a field. This would not be a problem except that asteroids are spawned with very little yield and increase their yield over time. Therefore the Discoverers of asteroid fields like to leave them unharvested until the material is needed.

However, it is not as simple as that. The most in demand materials, sourced only from asteroid fields, are Niobium, Tin and Promethium (NTP). Consequently, Angrite, Colombite and Promethicite asteroids are the most prized and the Discoverer will spend lots of time tending to fields which contain them. Most NTP asteroids are in fields with other asteroids. The Discoverer will remove the other asteroids to create more NTP asteroids. When an asteroid is harvested a new asteroid will spawn. However, the new asteroid is not necessarily of the same type as the one harvested; it can be of any of the types of asteroid in the field. So, this process has to be repeated until the field mostly, ideally only, contains NTP asteroids. Then the field can be left to grow. When the field is eventually harvested the process has to be repeated. It can be seen from this that, if the Discoverer does not clear the other asteroids, but only harvests the NTP asteroids, the field will eventually contain no NTP asteroids at all.

Shortly after the Fall, when the Jump Gate Network was in its infancy, the PCs who were building the Jump Gates were working extremely hard to supply NTP to the manufacturers of the modules for the Jump Gates. They were attempting to maximise the yields of NTP, particularly Promethium, and became known as the 'Prom Team'. Unfortunately, other PCs took advantage of the work done by the Prom Team and harvested the fields the Prom Team were working on for their own use. The excuse being 'Nothing is preventing us from doing it, so we can do it.' So, the 'Prom Team' stopped working and Jump Gate building slowed to a crawl. Eventually an agreement was reached which established the following etiquette to be used when harvesting asteroid fields.

PCs should not harvest asteroids in fields that have been discovered by another PC, except where the asteroid field is in a system in the 'Free Zone'.
A system is in the Free Zone if it is:
  • in any Sector within three sectors of Sector 0,0,0; that is any Sector numbered ±3,±3,±3
  • connected to Sector 0,0,0 by the Jump Gate Network
  • in the Red Zone
Bearing in mind that the Red Zone is one eighth of the Galaxy, this gives a lot of scope for harvesting existing fields. There should, also, be enough fields to keep new PCs happy until they can develop fields they have discovered. The consequences of not following the etiquette will be upset PCs who, at best, no longer tend their fields and, at worst, give up altogether. The result will be lack of supply for Jump Gates and Ships, because no-one will leave the fields long enough to get optimum yield; too much risk of being raided.

It follows that when harvesting asteroids in the Free Zone a few non-NTP asteroids should also be harvested to keep the field viable. Bear in mind that Autunite, Urelite and Chrondrite asteroids contain Uranium and Magnesium which, when sold to the Local Market are a very good source of income.
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Re: ASC - Mining etiquette guidelines

Postby LadyHawk » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:26 pm

Excellent work, Moon!!!

I'm afraid it might run a bit long, trying to explain the evolution of the etiquette by including all the details of the Prom Team fiasco and so forth. Not that its not great information (I just learned most of the history myself reading your post of it here!) but I don't want to see the readers get lost in it and miss the point. ie We'd prefer you respect the work of other active players by not mining their fields.

What does everybody else think?

I think we have a general consensus that a note about it in the wiki is a good idea. Mr. President, shall we take a formal vote? Or is it just a matter of all agreeing on the wording of the entry?
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Re: ASC - Mining etiquette guidelines

Postby Mooncrest » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:06 pm

I wanted to put in as much as I could to explain things. It does seem a little verbose. We can always whittle it down some before publication.
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Re: ASC - Mining etiquette guidelines

Postby Loke » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:13 pm

Mooncrest wrote:A system is in the Free Zone if it is:
  • in any Sector within three sectors of Sector 0,0,0; that is any Sector numbered ±3,±3,±3
  • connected to Sector 0,0,0 by the Jump Gate Network
  • in the Red Zone

How about putting this part at the top? THen those who are interested can read the rest, while those not can quickly understand the important stuff?
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Re: ASC - Mining etiquette guidelines

Postby Mooncrest » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:45 pm

Loke wrote:
Mooncrest wrote:A system is in the Free Zone if it is:
  • in any Sector within three sectors of Sector 0,0,0; that is any Sector numbered ±3,±3,±3
  • connected to Sector 0,0,0 by the Jump Gate Network
  • in the Red Zone

How about putting this part at the top? THen those who are interested can read the rest, while those not can quickly understand the important stuff?

That is a good suggestion. I will alter the draft accordingly.
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Re: ASC - Mining etiquette guidelines

Postby Mooncrest » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:29 pm

The following has been published in the Wiki:
Asteroid Mining Etiquette
The following has been agreed by the Players as the etiquette to be used when mining asteroid fields.
Players should not harvest asteroids in fields that have been discovered by another player.
The exceptions to this are asteroid fields in systems in the 'Free Zone'.
A system is in the Free Zone if it is:
  • in any sector within three sectors of sector 0,0,0; that is any Sector numbered ±3,±3,±3
  • connected to Sector 0,0,0 by the Jump Gate Network
  • in the Red Zone
Bearing in mind that the Red Zone is one eighth of the Galaxy, this gives a lot of scope for harvesting existing fields. There should, also, be enough fields to keep new Players happy until they can develop fields they have discovered. The consequences of not following the etiquette will be upset Players who, at best, no longer tend their fields and, at worst, leave the game. The result will be lack of supply for Jump Gates and Ships, because no-one will leave the fields long enough to get optimum yield; too much risk of raiders.

It follows that when harvesting asteroids in the Free Zone a few non-NTP asteroids should also be harvested to keep the field viable. Bear in mind that Autunite, Urelite and Chrondrite asteroids contain Uranium and Magnesium which, when sold to the Local Market are a very good source of income.

The Reasoning and History behind the Etquette
The game has no mechanism for allowing a Player to make a claim on any real estate except space on planetary surfaces for colonies. This means that the game coding does not regulate who can harvest the asteroids in a field. This would not be a problem except that asteroids are spawned with very little yield and increase their yield over time. There does not seem to be a limit on how big an individual asteroid can grow. Therefore the Discoverers of asteroid fields like to leave them unharvested until the material is needed.

However, it is not as simple as that. The most in demand materials, sourced only from asteroid fields, are Niobium, Tin and Promethium (NTP). Consequently, Angrite, Colombite and Promethicite asteroids are the most prized and the Discoverer will spend lots of game-time tending to fields which contain them. Most NTP asteroids are in fields with other asteroids. The Discoverer will remove the other asteroids to create more NTP asteroids. When an asteroid is harvested a new asteroid will spawn. However, the new asteroid is not necessarily of the same type as the one harvested; it can be any of the types of asteroid in the field. So, this process has to be repeated until the field mostly, ideally only, contains NTP asteroids. Then the field can be left to grow. When the field is eventually harvested the process has to be repeated. It can be seen from this that, if the Discoverer does not clear the other asteroids, but only harvests the NTP asteroids, the field will eventually contain no NTP asteroids at all.

Early in the game's history, when the Jump Gate Network was in its infancy, the Players who were building the Jump Gates were working extremely hard to supply NTP to the manufacturers of the modules for the Jump Gates. They were attempting to maximise the yields of NTP, particularly Promethium, and became known as the 'Prom Team'. Unfortunately, other players took advantage of the work done by the Prom Team and harvested their fields for their own use. The excuse being 'The game lets us do it so we are doing it.' So, the 'Prom Team' stopped working and Jump Gate building slowed to a crawl. Eventually an agreement was reached which established the etiquette to be used when harvesting asteroid fields.
Blake Mooncrest
Proprietor, Mooncrest Industries

Senator for Elfydd, Newydd Cymru, Otturet, Ceredigion, Llandysul and Llanrhystyd.
Mayor of all MI Facilities in the Miners Paradise system.
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