SWAT - ShipWrights and Associated Trades Guild

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SWAT - ShipWrights and Associated Trades Guild

Postby Mooncrest » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:55 am

Edtted: 10th Aug

Interested prospective Members

davh62 - Class 16+ Modules
LadyHawk - Military-oriented Modules
Moneyman - Class 11 to 13 Hulls and other Ship Modules
Mooncrest - All Player-builtable Hulls and Modules except Weaponry
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Original Post
We have embryo Miners, Traders, Cartographers and Fighters Guilds, so, with a relaunch of Ascent the Space Game, I thought it was time to found a new Guild.

The ShipWrights and Associated Trades Guild, or SWAT for short, will bring together those Players who would like to make Starships and the associated Ship Modules commercially. At this time we only have three Players who are actively advertising their ship building products. We, hopefully, will need more than this for the relaunch.

Needless to say, one of the Guild's objective's will be to nurture mutual co-operation between Members and aid fledgling Shipwrights to achieve their goals. However, another major goal will be for all Guild Members to agree on a common Price List that, while it gives Guild Members a reasonable profit, also is a "fair" price for the Guild's customers.

I will set up an independent Guild Forum that will have a Publicly Accessible section that
  • gives a detailed Price List,
  • allows customers to place orders and Guild Members to acknowledge orders
  • allows Guild Members to have a thread giving the progress of any Outstanding Orders they have
There will also be a Guild Members Only section for Guild discussions.

The Guild will have three different types of Member:
  • Associate Shipwright: Guild Members who have one to four operational Shipyards.
    They will mainly be manufacturing Ship Modules
  • Journeymen Shipwright: Guild Members who have five to eight operational Shipyards
    They will mainly be manufacturing NPC Variant Starships and Ship Modules
    Master Shipwright: Members who have more than eight Operational Shipyards
    They will able to manufacture PC Variant Starships as well as multiple NPC Variant Starships and Ship Modules
The idea behind this is that orders for individual Starships and Ship Modules can be turned around in one day.

Players will order from the Guild and not, necessarily, from a specific Guild Member. This will have the advantage of providing a manufacturing service, that emphasises efficiency and economy.

I envisage that Players will post their orders to the forum. Then a Guild Member in a timezone close to the customer will pick p the order and begin manufacture almost immediately.

The Guild will endeavour to negotiate a Guild contract with the Miners Guild and individual Asteroid Miners for a supply of Niobium, Promethium and Tin for SWAT Members.

If there is enough interest, I will create the Guild forum using forummotion.co.uk. They are able to create fora using phpBB2, phpBB3, invision or punBB. If you wish to be a Member of SWAT and know anything about creating fora, then let me know which system you would prefer and then a decision can be made on which one to use.

I am assuming at this point that Jam will be OK if we use the Ascent Logo and screenshots from the game in the forum. Hopefully I can use the logo as a link to the game's website which could create a bit of advertising for FKS. In any event, using forumotion.co.uk will allow us to broadcast our existence to the forumotion community as a whole; which may generate some interest in Ascent.
Last edited by Mooncrest on Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:37 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: SWAT - ShipWrights and Associated Trades Guild

Postby Moneyman » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:02 pm

:mrgreen: Nice and informative initial post to this thread.

You've overlooked one shipbuilding category: Middleman = Intermediate supplier of ships and modules.

A middleman supplies in volume to the guild at a shipbuilding discount of niobium and tin.

... i. e. The guild can access player ship and module inventories below the selling price.
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Re: SWAT - ShipWrights and Associated Trades Guild

Postby RAM » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:57 pm

I can easily add this to the guild forum that already exists. You would have your own members and space.
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Re: SWAT - ShipWrights and Associated Trades Guild

Postby davh62 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:39 pm

I'm interested Moon. pm me.
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Re: SWAT - ShipWrights and Associated Trades Guild

Postby Moneyman » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:11 pm

RAM wrote:I can easily add this to the guild forum that already exists. You would have your own members and space.


:mrgreen: I think its a good way to start with the guild forum rather than do a phpbb until its actually needed.

Could you also think about guild oversight for coils, PCs and WGs distribution?

In chat with Moon, earlier, Moon argued that a gate guild was more appropriate than including such things in SWAT.
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Re: SWAT - ShipWrights and Associated Trades Guild

Postby Mooncrest » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:49 pm

Moneyman wrote::mrgreen: Nice and informative initial post to this thread.
You've overlooked one shipbuilding category: Middleman = Intermediate suplier of ships and modules.
A middleman supplies in volume to the guild at a shipbuilding discount of niobium and tin.
... i. e. The guild can access player ship and module inventories below the selling price.

I was thinking that this function would be taken up by the Apprentice Shipwrights as they will not have the infrastructure to manufacture an entire ship in one go.

Foe instance, they could assist a Journeyman Shipwright in the manufacture of a PC Variant ship which they do not have the facilities to manufacture in one go.

Transactions between Guild Members would be at a rate agreeable to each of the Guild Member concerned, or at a rate the whole Guild can agree upon. The Guild can decide on this later as it can on other intraGuild procedures.

I think that the fundamental thing to agree upon now is the, rather radical, idea that the Guild will determine the maximum price a Guild Member is allowed to sell Ships and Ship Modules for.

Obviously, there will be both credit and material prices for the Guilds products. The materials being Niobium, Promethium and/or Tin; whichever is appropriate. This would apply to intraGuild transactions as well.
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Re: SWAT - ShipWrights and Associated Trades Guild

Postby Moneyman » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:16 am

:mrgreen: I see myself as an intermediary with a large ship inventory rather than a shipwright.

I understand your thinking about ship turnover time but inventories are instantaneous.

I am, effectively, with 5 shipyards building a player ship daily by building class 11 thru 13 ships.

... A player Leviathan with HD requires 9 built mods x 15 / 24 = 5.625 shipyards to be built daily.

... A NPC Leviathan requires 5 built mods x 15 / 24 = 3.125 shipyards

My purpose, with n/t for ships barter, is to have the equivalent of a minor mining operation ongoing.

Just acquired 1m+ tritium and 3k+ promethium to support PC and WG builds.

Filling my ISB rings 29 to 100 mostly with upgraded coils factories.
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Re: SWAT - ShipWrights and Associated Trades Guild

Postby Mooncrest » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:29 pm

If you are considering becoming a Member of SWAT, please think about a method of calculating the Guild Sales Price. This will be the second item on the agenda at the inaugural meeting. The first being the motion to have a Guild Sales Price or to let each Member determine their own Sales Price.

Bear in mind that, if a Guild price is set, it will, no doubt, fluctuate over time. Therefore, the method of calculation should be as simple as possible.

RAM has kindly offered to set up space reserved for the Guild on the Ascent Extras forum. After the weekend, when most active players have had a chance to peruse this thread and come to a decision, if there is sufficient interest, I will ask RAM to make our forum. We can them begin our discussions.
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Re: SWAT - ShipWrights and Associated Trades Guild

Postby Moneyman » Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:06 pm

:mrgreen: T2 provides the insight for the method for a standard pricing for player ships.

That is, cost of materials times 125% is the fair price for a built object.

Ships are the assembly of modules, built objects. Ships = 125% of the cost of modules.

In order to offer ships and modules for barter at a volume discount, I did the following calculations:

http://forum.thespacegame.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3295&p=29429#p29429

I simplified my calculations by only focusing on niobium and tin quantities required in construction.

:arrow: To encourage mining of exotic materials required in construction, I recommend the $$$ price be different.

... A built object sold for $$$ rather than barter be priced 130% cost of materials.
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Re: SWAT - ShipWrights and Associated Trades Guild

Postby LadyHawk » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:08 pm

Hi Moon,

If I may, I'd like to clarify that at this time I don't have all BP's for combat equipment researched up to high level classes. Turrets are researched up to Class 12, Shields to Class 13, Armor to Class 8 and Axial lasers to class 6. I am continuing research as fast as I can but orders for anything higher would have to filled by someone else for now.

Also, I do have other modules that I can provide as well, such as mhyperdrives, mining beams and passenger quarters.

As far as pricing, I personally would like to see the guild provide 'suggested pricing' but I understand that at least one other player objects to that concept, viewing it as price-fixing. I'm sure the intent for the guild suggested prices is a noble one but I can understand how some people may not see it that way. At a minimum, I think we would need to assure everyone that the suggested prices are only guidelines and not required.

I entered into preparations to sell combat equipment solely as a means to be helpful to the community. I don't even care about making a profit but will need to set some kind of price to cover the cost of materials so I don't bankrupt myself too quickly LOL If I do sell at the cost of materials required, without any profit margin, I am discouraging any other players who might actually want to provide the service on a for profit basis because the buyers will only see that my prices are lower. THAT is what would be so valuable in guild suggested pricing.

Just my 2 cents...ooops, better make that 3 or I might undercut somebody :P
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