Ascent: The Dark Side

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Ascent: The Dark Side

Postby Xanuri » Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:12 pm

Jam,

I was thinking that it might be some good content if we had a "Dark Side" to Ascent, something that is player run. I think it would provide a lot of valuable content to the game. I'd be willing to start this "Dark Side", it should have its own politics, etc.

If this is something you'd be interesting in exploring with me, I'd love to help. I could setup a dark "guild" and do somethings under the current structure, but there are some things that I couldn't do because current politics require things to be "approved" by those on the non-dark side!

I have some really great ideas and stuff that I have had actual dreams about since I started playing this game.

Does anyone think that going down this road is a bad idea?
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Re: Ascent: The Dark Side

Postby Kambalo » Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:24 pm

Sounds interesting, please do so.
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Re: Ascent: The Dark Side

Postby shathiell » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:21 am

Is there anything specific you want out of this?

A "Dark" side is something which is subjective and can be interpreted many different ways. I would argue that drug smuggling is "Dark", and is in-game today. The Red-Zone has potential to allow for all sorts of "Dark" gameplay aspects as well (Although I don't know if Jam will ever introduce things like destroying other player's colonies)
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Re: Ascent: The Dark Side

Postby Kambalo » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:11 pm

I think in the future we could have police NPC checking on "illegal traffic of banned items" like Cuban Cigars etc etc :lol: :lol:
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Re: Ascent: The Dark Side

Postby jam » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:45 pm

Kambalo wrote:I think in the future we could have police NPC checking on "illegal traffic of banned items" like Cuban Cigars etc etc :lol: :lol:


This is already in game.

For the OP: I'm interested, why not expand on your ideas in here?

Please bear in mind my development time is pretty much spoken for months in advance (this goes for any new idea) so for me to divert time onto new features from already planned stuff they need a lot of community support.
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Re: Ascent: The Dark Side

Postby Xanuri » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:01 pm

jam wrote:
For the OP: I'm interested, why not expand on your ideas in here?



Spectre and I had a conversation about this via PM yesterday, so I will share with everyone here what my thoughts are.

First I'd like to start out by saying that I love the PvE aspects of this game, but my dark side enjoys PvP. Most games fail horribly at implementation of PvP, because either they force you into it with a fight or die mentality or they completely omit it, which essentially removes any and all risk of getting your proverbial arse kicked and the adrenaline rush that happens when you are actually up against another person as an adversary.

Here the stage is set with a balance, if you don't like PvP, don't enter the red zone, if you do then the challenge is there and you enter at your own risk, which means...if you venture into the Red Zone and get your butt kicked or you lose something you worked hard for....well you knew the risk the minute you made the decision to cross that line.

So now on to the good stuff...

I would like to organize a player controlled political organization within the Red Zone that is independent of the current political structure for the "Light Zone". At this time we do not have game mechanics to provide this sort of structure but as you all have done an excellent job of having a political system here in the forums, we can use the same medium, until such features exist in-game to support collaborative organizations like guilds/alliances/corporations or whatever your favorite term is.

I think this organization should be an "official" one that does not mean that others can't form their own here and work with or against this organization, but having at least one "official" one would be good. It would also provide a template like structure for those who want to create their own.

This organization and its council would work to manage new gates and other red zone affairs, war, Red Zone exploration, etc.

Below is essentially the letter I sent to Spectre:

Sir,

We need to have at least 1 large organized Red Zone group of PvP'ers. I believe the best way to do that is setup a formal military style command and control structure. We recruit players with like minds and goals.

We need to name our group.

Maybe we can follow the Navy or Marine Corp Command Structure as a basis, and customize as needed. I don't think that the government should be single player controlled at the top I would suggest a council of some sort to rule but anything below the council would be a military style command structure.

The council will deal with things such as WAR, as well as more domesticated and strategic things like gates and promotions and other more leadership issues.

I think that we need to separate our selves from the current council and presidency and that we have no say in white zone affairs and they have no say in red zone affairs, unless each government chooses to work together for some mutual cause.

We also need to work with Jam on getting some more official Guild/Alliance features in the game so that we can have separate comms and other features that allow for collaboration internally with means of external comms as well.

Our goal would be to, under this organization, rule the Red Zone. Continue discovering new systems and securing them. I am sure that this will provide lots of content for everyone to enjoy who will enjoy it.

We will need to get our fleets up to combat status and I had an idea to work with Sciriez to maybe provide us with different skins to our fleets and star bases.

I think there is a lot of things we can do with this to create player created content for others and to provide a dark option for those who have that kind of gaming persona.


Let me know what you think, and be honest....I also would imagine that you have your own ideas and things that can add more color and flare to this idea.

Respectfully,
Xanuri


I would also imagine that you, Jam, also have some ideas that we could incorporate into this. Anyway, this was more or less the beginning ideas and thoughts I had.
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Re: Ascent: The Dark Side

Postby Kambalo » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:34 pm

Which one is the red zone?

I like the idea of PVP as long as PVE players like me are not forced to do it, I have seen many games where the PVP crowd starts nicely asking for PVP and then all hell brakes loose and ends in the PVE players abandoning the game and the game going down the dumps.

I even would go to a step further and ask for a specific channel for those who want PVP so they can chat them and dont come spaming the PVE players asking for them to come and join PVP so they can have fresh players to gank ala EVE ONLINE.

Another point is that by creating a zone for only PVP you are limiting other players who dont PVP to have access to a zone of the game that is not allowed for them? That is wrong as well, maybe I am a pacific trader who would like to go to the red zone to sell my "underhanded" acquired goods and now I cannot do business because I will be destroyed?
Last edited by Kambalo on Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ascent: The Dark Side

Postby Xanuri » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:36 pm

could make it so that when you enter the red zone, your selected channel auto changes to "Red Zone Global"
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Re: Ascent: The Dark Side

Postby shathiell » Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:38 pm

Xanuri wrote:I would like to organize a player controlled political organization within the Red Zone that is independent of the current political structure for the "Light Zone". At this time we do not have game mechanics to provide this sort of structure but as you all have done an excellent job of having a political system here in the forums, we can use the same medium, until such features exist in-game to support collaborative organizations like guilds/alliances/corporations or whatever your favorite term is.


So what you are asking for is basically in-game tools to enable guild/orgs, or does this go deeper than that?

For example, do you expect members of this organisation to be shot on-site in the inner 9? If so, then that kinda muddies the whole "No PvP in PvE" areas of the game.

I don't think this game will ever allow this level of depth given the complexities involved, however we are all hoping for better social/guild/org tools in the future to better co-ordinate efforts amongst organisations and we are all secretly hoping for massive guild/org based projects like NPC Stations in the middle of nowhere.

There is already some effort to co-ordinate red-zone gate builds and connectivity. See Aga & Hubes' efforts so far on this (Aga has gated a couple and Hubes has created a mini-cluster). Beyond this, short term there is nothing stopping you from creating your own Dark Org and controlling your own little section of space :D
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Re: Ascent: The Dark Side

Postby Xanuri » Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:36 am

So what you are asking for is basically in-game tools to enable guild/orgs, or does this go deeper than that?


Both

For example, do you expect members of this organisation to be shot on-site in the inner 9? If so, then that kinda muddies the whole "No PvP in PvE" areas of the game.


inside the inner 9, absolutely not, my guess is that any and all PvP would have to exist inside the red zone only, unless we also wanted to implement a DMZ zone. When I played WoW, I played primarily on a "Normal" Server. What this meant was that I was in PvE mode by default with a toggle command to enable myself for PvP instantly and you could toggle it again to disable PvP but you had a 60 second timer before it engaged, if you performed a hostile act during that cool off the timer was reset. Not saying we have to copy them, but the mechanic did work nicely and it could be an option to consider at least.

I don't think this game will ever allow this level of depth given the complexities involved, however we are all hoping for better social/guild/org tools in the future to better co-ordinate efforts amongst organisations and we are all secretly hoping for massive guild/org based projects like NPC Stations in the middle of nowhere.

There is already some effort to co-ordinate red-zone gate builds and connectivity. See Aga & Hubes' efforts so far on this (Aga has gated a couple and Hubes has created a mini-cluster). Beyond this, short term there is nothing stopping you from creating your own Dark Org and controlling your own little section of space :D


you are correct, but without at least 1 formally organized group then there is really as you stated short term activities and no real plans contributing to the game from a content perspective. I respect every PvE'r out there for what they do and how they contribute, but relying on a NPC AI system to bring you quality PvP content will not be very realistic, not to mention the time it would take to develop such and AI system, you can completely circumvent that with real players creating the content for you. That doesn't mean that the existing "Pirates" should go away, in fact they should stay and continue to provide content from that angle.
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