Barter vs Monopoly

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Moneyman

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Re: Barter vs Monopoly

Postby Moneyman » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:21 pm

gotpurplefleas wrote:Hi all,
Well Money I initially react with a feeling that your time would best be spent researching other projects...while economics has it's base in several sciences, it is not best decided by scientists...lol. Also, this game has several bugs, glitches, and quirks that make many of your logical arguments erroneous and moot.

I don't sell my nio/tin at all...but...hmm...I think if you want to buy it for 210k per ton I will gladly break that rule.

have fun with it... :) :P :P :lol:

fleas


:mrgreen: I prefer the $100k that Taut has been selling me.

:) Fortunately, Ascent hasn't reached everyone of the same mindset or I wouldn't have some saying: Hmmm, got to think about that rather than: Wrong, get your head fixed.

:?: When, as recently, a lot of players leave Ascent for other games there is probably one or more reason(s) - why do you think they left Ascent?
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Re: Barter vs Monopoly

Postby Wulf » Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:23 pm

this is not new, sorry to say economy, asteroid mechanism, lack of planetary economy, valueless mats, have been around and talked about since i joined a couple years ago, and it seemed to be an old topic then :D

regardless i found asteroid mining difficult as well (slightly colorblind so made it hard to judge) But some changes have helped out immensely, the bigger beam is wide and u can see the colour changes. Also if u move to older rocks the time 39 seconds, to to fully roasted rock, is easier to work with (also you can use a timer if all else fails and be like robot perfect miner all the time).

but yes asteroids need a change primary in how they age. yes we need a planetary economy, and yes we need a way to make colony mats have value and not relying on endless hours a day it would take to haul them to a inner nine npc space station.

as far as hoarding rare mats to drive price up, it happens and again it's a function of how asteroids grow that allows this be a strategy (if they aged faster then more could be mined creating greater stock) also old market post should be hidden., as well as the current stockmarket is not autosorting on cheapest first, bit odd, but i assume that has gone to bug reports already.


good luck, keep conductive rage on trading, asteroid improvement (nio/tin is our games gold standard for economy) and improved economics :).

I have placed several scenarios out there for changes but either they are not the direction the developer wants or most like just doesn't have the time to do it. it is after-all basically a one person doing it all.

ps: yes I did leave twice, both over asteroid issues. it's sad, mining is fun and rewarding , but it needs a fix to the mechanics to make it work for the vast majority of players both new and old.
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Re: Barter vs Monopoly

Postby diggulum » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:31 am

I think for many newer players there are 3 realistic streams to move forward in the game early on.

1) trading

2) Mining

3) Carbon Deadheading

In a perfect universe, these 3 options would be relatively balanced so the TIME FACTOR in each advances you at the same relative rate.

That is not so here, and furthermore, as you advance and get larger ships, Carbon Deadheading as THE method to make credits for players is the most TIME EFFICIENT method by orders of magnitude.

When you make assertions or assumptions about price of anything in this game, it pretty much all boils down to carbon.

I love to mine. I never have found it easy but i do enjoy it.

Does it provide and income source relatively close to the carbon markets for a player with only relatively young fields to mine?

Hell no. Id be better off by far making credits deadheading carbon.

The lower the price of tin/nio and coils, the less attractive mining becomes. Its simply not worth the time to most new players that contextualise the game as `how i get credits for my next upgrade`.

This disparity leaves new players seeing the pathway forward as `i will trade carbon, mining is not worth my time` which leaves the mining sector with less and less practitioners, reducing supply and competition, keeping prices higher than they need to be.

Sure, Older players with old fields and structures can come through and drop the markets on these items as happened with coils this week and supply large quantities of materials to whomever at low prices.

The net effect of this is to keep the price high because mining once again becomes less attractive compared to Carbon Deadheading for the new player, so that method is counter productive.

Within the current game structure, this WILL NOT CHANGE. The only real ways to challenge this are in structures that make Mining and Trading more attractive to players as cash cows or as achievements in and of themselves than dumping carbon in one jumps onto an I9 market for 1kish profit per ton.
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Re: Barter vs Monopoly

Postby Wulf » Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:29 am

diggulum wrote:I think for many newer players there are 3 realistic streams to move forward in the game early on.

1) trading

2) Mining

3) Carbon Deadheading

In a perfect universe, these 3 options would be relatively balanced so the TIME FACTOR in each advances you at the same relative rate.

That is not so here, and furthermore, as you advance and get larger ships, Carbon Deadheading as THE method to make credits for players is the most TIME EFFICIENT method by orders of magnitude.

When you make assertions or assumptions about price of anything in this game, it pretty much all boils down to carbon.

I love to mine. I never have found it easy but i do enjoy it.

Does it provide and income source relatively close to the carbon markets for a player with only relatively young fields to mine?

Hell no. Id be better off by far making credits deadheading carbon.

The lower the price of tin/nio and coils, the less attractive mining becomes. Its simply not worth the time to most new players that contextualise the game as `how i get credits for my next upgrade`.

This disparity leaves new players seeing the pathway forward as `i will trade carbon, mining is not worth my time` which leaves the mining sector with less and less practitioners, reducing supply and competition, keeping prices higher than they need to be.

Sure, Older players with old fields and structures can come through and drop the markets on these items as happened with coils this week and supply large quantities of materials to whomever at low prices.

The net effect of this is to keep the price high because mining once again becomes less attractive compared to Carbon Deadheading for the new player, so that method is counter productive.

Within the current game structure, this WILL NOT CHANGE. The only real ways to challenge this are in structures that make Mining and Trading more attractive to players as cash cows or as achievements in and of themselves than dumping carbon in one jumps onto an I9 market for 1kish profit per ton.


Thank you it has been a while since i was new, and at the time carbon was not a giveaway commodity like it is now (player usually paid half the sell price to the colony owner but now it's just taking up space so they ,colonies, often dump it for 1 credit), graphene was worth a lot (paying 50-70k per) but now graphene is a obsolete with terraforming (still needed for dome worlds but the price is very low)
and it is a real shame colony mats are worthless to the colony. it's nice for new players for cash but nothing for the colony owner except a net lose, very sad state for colonies. this is all fine, it is what it is, just not setup for a colony building and trading game. but it's gives mats for gate building and virtually free mats for hauling. maybe one day colonies will get an overhaul, but so many things for one person to develop, i suspect this stat will be here a long time.
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