ECONOMICS, cost of production

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Re: ECONOMICS, cost of production

Postby Mooncrest » Mon May 29, 2017 7:14 pm

Wulf wrote:
Mooncrest wrote:OK, just checkng that I have this right now.
Your suggestion would be that:
  • Players stop paying wages
  • Instead each commodity is assigned a Cost of Production
  • When the Buyer pays for the commodity the amount paid will be the Cost of Production plus an amount set by the Player as his profit
    In your example for Iron this would mean that the Buyer pays 105 credits per ton of Iron
  • The amount the Buyer pays is then split between the colonists and the Player: the colonists getting 90% to 95% (To Be Determined) of the CoP and the Player gets 5% to 10% of the CoP plus the amount set as profit
This means that the Player does not have to put any additional funds into the colony once the colonists are established. The colonists get their reward for their labour only when the products are sold.


no, well i guess if you want to try and sell iron for a big profit yes, not sure where you got the double dipping idea, it's just 50 base price for iron. that is it. if you want more profits set whatever price you want and think you can sell it for.

i don't want hons crap redone it's here now what i do want is the wage stuff in laws removed and a governance type to replace it BUT that is only optional.

in effort to make this the lest amount of work for Jam I am keeping it simple. that is why it's only applied to SM trades, yes this leaves a flaw when a player moves there own stuff, but for simplicity and get at lest something working this is the fastest most effective means.

OK, next attempt:
  • Players stop paying wages
  • Instead each commodity is assigned a Cost of Production
  • When the Buyer pays for the commodity the amount paid will be the Sales Value.
    In your example for Iron this would mean that the Buyer pays 55 credits per ton of Iron
  • The amount the Buyer pays is then split between the colonists and the Player:
    The colonists getting 90% to 95% (To Be Determined) of the CoP : which amounts to 45 to 48 credits in this example
    The Player gets 5% to 10% of the CoP plus the amount set as profit: which amounts to 7 to 10 credits in this example
This means that the Player does not have to put any additional funds into the colony once the colonists are established. The colonists get their reward for their labour only when the products are sold.


I am not sure that anyone would agree with this. I certainly cannot. Using your the Sales Price in your example and the current system, I would receive all 55 credits when the ton of Iron is sold. Sure, I have had to pay the colonists wages for the time it takes for them to produce that ton and the time it has taken for that ton to be sold from my warehouse, but if this amount comes to more than 2 credits I would be very surprised. This gives me a net profit of 53 credits with the existing system and my expected net profit with your system is only 8 to 10 credits. Which am I going to choose?

It takes very little effort to cover the on-going costs of running a colony at the moment. with a Leviathan carrying a full load of Carbon it is possible to realise an amount of 177,000 credits; which should go a long way towards paying the on-going costs for one day for your entire empire, unless you are davh62 when you may need two loads. :mrgreen:

If your colonies are losing you money, it is because you are not taking the goods to market yourself and you have no NPCs taking them to market for you and Players are not buying from your SMs. Or rather, not enough of these activities is happening. Doing more of these activities will make your colonies profitable.
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Re: ECONOMICS, cost of production

Postby Wulf » Mon May 29, 2017 10:22 pm

Correct and it's good to know that it's not what you want.

Yes it's is my choice not to haul and i have tried many times to get npc's to work, they hate me so they don't do anything that i can tell.

The point isn't to maximize hauling profits, and yes if that is what you want then please oppose this change.

The point was to add some realism, create at the minimum revenue neutral colonies (instead of the inherent continuous lose). Add a plausible reason that colonies(and osb's) would have credits (yes, not the player, but the players colony with a little bit going to player) and systems/worlds/colonies would generate demands and contracts. move/promote the trading game to the outer colonies and add some life to colonies. as a side this would also effect the claw back that was proposed on core system prices.

as a side note: demands are 'like' core system where you can dump mats but I envision they would be a formula based on the systems populations and needs. instance based but as the more well supplied systems would slowly ask for less and at lower price while under-supplied systems would rise. (example of demand, even though a colony generates iron the private sector or other institutes would need materials and they generate a demand, but at a lower value then say a food source that is absent) contacts are like the core system, somewhat random, and eventually, I hope we can get service contacts like tourism or security (npc combat patrol ships).
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Re: ECONOMICS, cost of production

Postby Moneyman » Tue May 30, 2017 1:23 am

:mrgreen: I'm of two minds with this thread so I'll let each mind has its say.

The thoughts that you'll want to hear me say.

I'm really glad that Wulf has put his heart and spirit into this thread.

I'm really impressed with the response to the ideas that Wulf has expressed.

The thoughts that are time and time again ignored when I say them.

Its too hard to really understand the ideas expressed in this thread because there is no graphics or illustrations.

Imagine what it would be like if Ascent was just like the very first online games were visually.

Those games where only text because the computers then were too feeble to handle images of any kind.

Do you have any idea how long ago that was? Do you have any idea how brain numbing text really is?
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Re: ECONOMICS, cost of production

Postby Wulf » Tue May 30, 2017 3:53 am

Moneyman wrote::mrgreen: I'm of two minds with this thread so I'll let each mind has its say.

The thoughts that you'll want to hear me say.

I'm really glad that Wulf has put his heart and spirit into this thread.

I'm really impressed with the response to the ideas that Wulf has expressed.

The thoughts that are time and time again ignored when I say them.

Its too hard to really understand the ideas expressed in this thread because there is no graphics or illustrations.

Imagine what it would be like if Ascent was just like the very first online games were visually.

Those games where only text because the computers then were too feeble to handle images of any kind.

Do you have any idea how long ago that was? Do you have any idea how brain numbing text really is?


HAHA, yes I do know how mind numbing text are (I might be "vintage Wulf") if I knew how to make and paste picture in this forum i would, or one of those nice you tube things, but sadly I can not (and not sure I have the time even if i learned how) and I might add that text is really bad for spelling and grammar issues, plus it looks ' game unprofessional in this day and age' , more like something you get a work.
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Re: ECONOMICS, cost of production

Postby Mooncrest » Tue May 30, 2017 9:00 am

Wulf, I have set two NPC Pilots flying Archons to trade between BadWulfBay and my OSB at MIB Tyngbraneth.

If you wish, you may raise the selling price of Iron and Carbon to 50 credits per.

This should give you some income.
NPC Archons carry about 50k cargo so they will generate about 2,500,000 per trip each
They should get about 10 trips per day
So, they should generate about 50 million credits per day; which should be enough to cover your wage/supplies bill.

Moneyman, sorry to disappoint, but I do not have the wit to imagine what images would communicate the arguments I have been making in this thread.

The act of writing the text allows me to have additional thoughts on the subject which I can instantly incorporate into what I am writing.

You cannot compare a technical discussion, such as this, with the User Interface for a game the two simply are not comparable.

Yes, I do know how long ago that was. I purchased my first PC in 1978. I even remember that it cost me about 900GBP which was nearly one year's wages in those heady days. This compares to my current laptop which cost about 600GBP which was about two week's wages.

Sometimes I think I prefer the old games, because, as there were very rudimentary graphics, the gameplay was far superior to most of the games on the market now.

Everyone is an individual. We all have our own preferences. We all have our own methods of communication. You struggle to understand my communications in the same way as I struggle to understand yours. Your Mischief thread I found particularly difficult to make sense of. This does not prevent us from being friends, but we have to agree to allow each to communicate using the method each finds best.
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Re: ECONOMICS, cost of production

Postby Moneyman » Tue May 30, 2017 11:40 am

:mrgreen: Some thoughts on Wulf's and Mooncrest's last posts.

Wulf: Thanks for your answer. I know I'm asking for a paradigm shift that no one is ready to make just yet.

....... I see time and effort spent in the each of your posts to this thread. Would one image be that tough?

Moon: Thanks for your answer. I'm tempted to illustrate what I'm actually suggesting ... You really don't understand.

....... Your textual posts are always easier to understand. I have a NPC thread which will take up my available time.

Final comment The younger, global scientists made the paradigm shift decades ago.
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