Let's talk meaningful and dynamic economy

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Moneyman

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Re: Let's talk meaningful and dynamic economy

Postby Moneyman » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:50 pm

:mrgreen: Thanks Wulf and Moon for your posts ... Rum, they've contributed a lot of ideas in the past.
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Loke

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Re: Let's talk meaningful and dynamic economy

Postby Loke » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:40 pm

Mooncrest wrote:
  1. Add maintenance cost for buildings and modules in colonies and OSBs. Charged daily (Real Time). I think we can ignore Settlements for this. Very good suggestion, I support this
  2. Add maintenance cost for ships. Charged either daily as buildings/modules or every time a ship docks at a Starstation or Starbase as with Hyperdrive Damage. This charge to be in addition to the current repair costs.Makes sense
  3. Set a basic minimum wage for all three groups of colonistsYes, since we can put in so low numbers it didnt add anything to the gameplay when this was implemented, wasted coding time if not a minimum wage is set as you suggest. I support.
  4. Allow Players to research Mew Products. Looks like a lot of work coding and balacing, and I dont really see how this adds gameplay. And we could end up with thousands of products, sounds like a mess. Unless I misunderstood completely


Wulf wrote:I worry with a maintenance cost or a set day value, it will hurt those that do not play daily, (as a previous post) I feel just building in a cost of production into items would work without hurting those that are more casual. j..................but i an extremely opposed to just daily fees, that just srceems 'hurt colony owners more', i mean colony are already giant money pits, just building them i will never see my money back both as ingame and the SC's payed. still my advice - do not build colonies - only need extremely basic one for extra research and a single osb. adding more punishment (fees) to colonies just makes that statement more true.

Maintance cost of colonies are close to 0, unless you buy food for very high prices. Haul 1 carbon load to LM and you have paid for 1 month of maintance of all my colonies (I migth be wrong as we have no tools to calculate this). I agree inital cost of building them is not earned back do to close to 0 profit on prodution. Why not just haul cheap carbon and not build any colony yourself, kills reason to build anything :(

I think we really need some cost to colonies/OSBs or at least to production. Having SMs selling T1 at <10 prices and easily cover cost of prod kills all point prices at SMs.

Adding a cost to each ton that is produced would be a good solution. I think it needs to be a fixed amount of credits and not a % of sale price (selling at 1 per ton would remove the point of it).
How about 10 credits production cost per ton carbon and titanium as an example? Or would that hurt inactive players to much? probably would... as we ha noe way of shutting down production. Bah, Im just rambling at this point, trying to find a good simple way of increasing production cost without a lot of coding and high complexity.


Mooncrest wrote:A question: Do the colonists pay for the luxuries we supply; Beer, Wine, Cigars and Neurostims? If they do, how much is it?

No, they just consume it while producing faster.
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Statistics for Nio and Tin prices: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3427
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Re: Let's talk meaningful and dynamic economy

Postby Drake » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:33 pm

Hello, fairly new to this game, but a bit of experience with other games including a few with player driven economies.

Obviously right now the economy needs some work, a big part of that is how you can dump an unlimited amount of resources in the Inner 9, so that is what I'm going to address first.

I will start with a basic idea revolving around food.

The average person eats about one ton of food every year. If we assume the Inner 9 systems have a massive overpopulation problem they could easily have 10 billion people each. This is a supply requirement of 10 billion tons of food a year, minimum, not including waste. One game year is about 45 days IRL, so divide that 10 billion by 45 for a demand of around 200 million tons of food a day for each system in the Inner 9. (I am rounding they way I do for easier math later.

We can adjust this demand based on the system. Food producing systems should require 3/4 the food of non-food producing systems and will never buy the food they produce. This means you can't sell meat to Apollo. (I believe this is already the case.) That is still a lot of food each system wants to import and this can be adjusted if it seems it is needed. The Inner 9 systems should only be willing to buy food at a "premium" up until their demand is met. After that, the price should drop significantly, and eventually when they have enough surplus they should stop buying it entirely. When they have a surplus they may actually start Selling their excess, that over time if not bought by players will transition to other Inner 9 stations that have remaining demand.

It may be better to explain with an example. For this example we will use Apollo.

Apollo's population demands 200 million tons of food each day, specifically 50 million tons of each type of food. They produce lets say 100 million tons of meat each day, so they already have double the meat they demand and will not buy it. If left alone their Meat surplus will build to a preset number. We will go with 10 times demand, so in 10 days they will reach their maximum surplus if left alone. When at maximum surplus anything produced over this is sold off and transported by NPCs (not hired by PCs) to neighboring Inner 9 systems. Apollo boarders 4 of those systems, so it's daily extra 50 million tons will be divided between each of those systems, reducing their daily demand by 12.5 million tons each. In two cases, Ceres and Promona, they only have one neighboring Inner 9 system and will provide the entire base demand for it reducing their minimum daily demand to 0. This is not to say they won't buy any, but you won't get the best price for it. Apollo however, still needs Fruit, Grain and Vegetables, though they may get half their vegetable demand met by Ubertas's surplus if no PCs are buying the excess. While Apollo hasn't met their minimum demand of say grain they will pay 500 credits per ton of grain. Once it is met, they drop the price to 400 credits, once they have a surplus equal to their minimum demand they will pay 300 credits. The amount they will pay per ton keeps dropping until they are only willing to pay 100 credits a ton when they are at 5 times demand in surplus or they hit ten times their demand in surplus and stop buying it altogether. Lets say they hit their maximum surplus in Grain and stop buying it. This triggers an event where NPC ships start showing up every 15 minutes and pick up 2 million tons of Grain and move it to a neighboring Inner 9 that needs grain. They will keep coming until they drop back to 5 times the minimum demand in surplus.

The numbers can all be adjusted as needed and should be based on how many active players there are transporting goods to the inner 9. That is, unique players, not just a few making lots of trips. It can be further spread by making it so no single player can sell more than a certain percentage of the systems demand each day. As an example, perhaps limit each player to 1 million tons of any given commodity each day, with the price paid dropping based on how close to their limit they are or the total sold to the system that day, which ever is lower. This allows a very large number of players to sell to the system, but make it less attractive to players who have been playing longer as they can probably make more profit selling to other players than they would to the NPC stations after just a short time. The prices should actually be based off of the cost to produce which has been discussed and should put the minimum price the Inner 9 will buy for at just barely above the cost to produce for an efficient colony.

Similar system can be put in place for each of the other resources bought and sold in the Inner 9. Set a demand number so when it is reached, and surplus above that is reached, the buying price will drop. Any station in the Inner 9 that sells a commodity will increase it's price as it's surplus approaches their own demand. (and will not sell themselves below their demand.)

You can still make a good profit, though that profit will become more meaningless as a player progresses into bigger more expensive ships, leaving most of the chore of selling to the Inner 9 to newer players as a way for them to get started in the game. One should not be able to make a billion credits selling carbon to the Inner 9 with just a dozen or so one hop trips in a single day.

This was all just my thoughts on stopping the unlimited selling to the Inner 9 while still leaving it a viable place for new players to get their start.
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