As a new player...

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As a new player...

Postby calkhi » Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:38 pm

But not an unintelligent one, I've noted these things so far.
1. The UI is terrible. I mean, it hurts.
Possible fixes: I can design any UI your heart desires, but it will not be free. You may also want to consider completely removing the use of the ship's computer for commonly used things like cargo management, and instead adding a dedicated inventory screen, thus removing the need for the cargo manifest which takes up room when not needed.
2. Literally the only thing I liked doing in this game was skimming. Everything else was so damn painful because of the inventory management issue that I just didn't find it fun.
Possible fixes: The combat is something that's really hard to get right. Maybe a lock-on feature to allow for more defensive flying while still being able to shoot accurately? Starter ships with greatly increased cargo space? Might do it. As is, the only way to get a better ship in a reasonable amount of time with little hassle is to just run around buying grain from ceres and selling in vulcan. That's not really acceptable for some people. And no, key bindings are not an acceptable replacement for a proper inventory screen. Sorry.
3. Full 3D newtonian movement.
Nothing wrong here, move along. Seriously, move along now.
4. You just...don't have all the skills you need. AKA, you need to hire people. After studying both business management and programming throughout college, I know what I'm saying sounds really rude, offensive, and evil. After all, you don't know me. I'm just some prickuhhh-lypear who decided to lecture you. But this isn't a lecture, this is advice. You might ask "well, what right do you have to give advice?" And I know that it hurts being told "your program sucks." Because for my first year of programming that's all I ever heard. Now don't get me wrong, this game is actually REALLY good for being made by one dedicated guy. You just need someone for game design, and I know a guy, but he doesn't work for free either. Also, you *might* want to take this off steam. Since if people ask for a refund, the person gets a full refund, but steam still keeps their cut. Basically, you pay out of pocket. Or that's how I've been told.
6. I will, however, help any way I can in my spare time. Seriously, just ask, and I'll see what I can do to help.
7. You just now noticed I skipped 5.
8. You are now angrily typing a reply after only reading the first two points.
9. You really don't care what I think at all, since I'm such a new addition to the community, and you've been here for far longer.
10. You're still writing out an angry reply without even skimming through the rest of these.
11. By responding to my post without including the safe word "Banana" you have forfeited your soul to me so I can repay my debt.
12. If you're seriously reading to this point, I'm really impressed.
13. So, I'm running out of silly mood lighteners. Anyone got any good puns?
14. You don't really have to use the word Banana, but can we still do that to mess with people?
15. I don't hate you, I just think we need to sit down and talk about our lord and saviour Cthulu.
16. Finally, last but not least, the community is small now, but if it ever gets bigger, we're going to need moderators actively looking through chat for people who are cursing, etc.
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Re: As a new player...

Postby rmartz » Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:08 pm

Welcome to the community. We may be small, but many are very passionate about it.

While you make many good points, you provide no dollars to help make it happen. WE had a Kickstarter and hoped to have enough to get some UI work done, but alas, that did not happen.

I am sure if someone bought $10,000 of Solar Credits in game, there might be some to do as you suggested. Feel free to click that button and buy some. Then hiring a person to do some of these things will be possible. Until then, KFS has to make do with what they have.

I hope you will give the game a little more time. You may find that it grows on you.

I can remember when the Dome Control interface came out. I looked at it and I HATED it . I thought, "This will be so hard. I will never be able to do this easily." Needless to say, after about a week or so, I found myself loving the dome settings. I got used to the interface and it became simple after a while.

I also learned that the concept of this game is a sandbox. The tools are presented and it allows us to build or do as we want. I hope that soon you will learn that the tools may be simple, but the possibilities are great to create.

My advice, do not play this game as other games. There is no real winning or end point. Just a place to have lots of fun being creative. See you in the stars.

Peace.
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Re: As a new player...

Postby Leprosi » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:24 pm

Banana
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Re: As a new player...

Postby ForumBot » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:42 pm

calkhi wrote:1. The UI is terrible. I mean, it hurts.
Possible fixes: I can design any UI your heart desires, but it will not be free. You may also want to consider completely removing the use of the ship's computer for commonly used things like cargo management, and instead adding a dedicated inventory screen, thus removing the need for the cargo manifest which takes up room when not needed.

Jam is still looking for a UI artist I think if you want to help fix the UI. Not sure what you meant by that last part though.

calkhi wrote:2. Literally the only thing I liked doing in this game was skimming. Everything else was so damn painful because of the inventory management issue that I just didn't find it fun.
Possible fixes: The combat is something that's really hard to get right. Maybe a lock-on feature to allow for more defensive flying while still being able to shoot accurately? Starter ships with greatly increased cargo space? Might do it. As is, the only way to get a better ship in a reasonable amount of time with little hassle is to just run around buying grain from ceres and selling in vulcan. That's not really acceptable for some people. And no, key bindings are not an acceptable replacement for a proper inventory screen. Sorry.
Once again, not sure what you meant by inventory management. And as for combat, A lock-on feature already exists with certain types of weapons, just not the starter ones (turrets and broadsides can lock onto targets). As for starter ships with more cargo space, I'd have to say no to this because since every ship has around double the space of the previous ship (excluding bowhead), this would mean that if turtles and hornets had 20 cargo space, the archon would have 80-90k instead of around 40k.


calkhi wrote:3. Full 3D newtonian movement.
Nothing wrong here, move along. Seriously, move along now.

Support

calkhi wrote:4. You just...don't have all the skills you need. AKA, you need to hire people. After studying both business management and programming throughout college, I know what I'm saying sounds really rude, offensive, and evil. After all, you don't know me. I'm just some prickuhhh-lypear who decided to lecture you. But this isn't a lecture, this is advice. You might ask "well, what right do you have to give advice?" And I know that it hurts being told "your program sucks." Because for my first year of programming that's all I ever heard. Now don't get me wrong, this game is actually REALLY good for being made by one dedicated guy. You just need someone for game design, and I know a guy, but he doesn't work for free either. Also, you *might* want to take this off steam. Since if people ask for a refund, the person gets a full refund, but steam still keeps their cut. Basically, you pay out of pocket. Or that's how I've been told.

As for getting this game off of Steam, it's not happening. This game was on greenlight for around 1.5 years I believe (just an estimate), and once the game got onto Steam, the size of the community (inactive members excluded) tripled.


calkhi wrote:6. I will, however, help any way I can in my spare time. Seriously, just ask, and I'll see what I can do to help.

Ok.


calkhi wrote:7. You just now noticed I skipped 5.

10/10 meme

calkhi wrote:8. You are now angrily typing a reply after only reading the first two points.

- Insert 5 paragraph angry rant here -

calkhi wrote:9. You really don't care what I think at all, since I'm such a new addition to the community, and you've been here for far longer.

But new player's feedback is important with helping the dev know what could be changed to improve the new player experience.


calkhi wrote:10. You're still writing out an angry reply without even skimming through the rest of these.

- Insert 7 paragraph angry rant here -

calkhi wrote:11. By responding to my post without including the safe word "Banana" you have forfeited your soul to me so I can repay my debt.

K


calkhi wrote:12. If you're seriously reading to this point, I'm really impressed.

Cool

calkhi wrote:13. So, I'm running out of silly mood lighteners. Anyone got any good puns?

No


calkhi wrote:14. You don't really have to use the word Banana, but can we still do that to mess with people?

Half of these I don't even know why I'm replying to


calkhi wrote:15. I don't hate you, I just think we need to sit down and talk about our lord and saviour Cthulu.

I don't hate you either, I just think we need to sit down and talk about our lord and saviour Gaben.


calkhi wrote:16. Finally, last but not least, the community is small now, but if it ever gets bigger, we're going to need moderators actively looking through chat for people who are cursing, etc.

Suggested this too atleast twice. For some reason a lot of people are against this though, even though this game is probably going to turn into a trollfest if it never gets any new moderators.
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Re: As a new player...

Postby jam » Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:21 am

calkhi wrote:But not an unintelligent one, I've noted these things so far.
1. The UI is terrible. I mean, it hurts. We know. The really scary part is, it's a HUGE IMPROVEMENT on what it used to be.
Possible fixes: I can design any UI your heart desires, but it will not be free. You may also want to consider completely removing the use of the ship's computer for commonly used things like cargo management, and instead adding a dedicated inventory screen, thus removing the need for the cargo manifest which takes up room when not needed.
2. Literally the only thing I liked doing in this game was skimming. Everything else was so damn painful because of the inventory management issue that I just didn't find it fun. Ok, well seeya - thanks for playing and thanks for posting your feedback. As for me paying you to design a UI, this is the WORST job application I've ever seen in my life.
Possible fixes: The combat is something that's really hard to get right. Maybe a lock-on feature to allow for more defensive flying while still being able to shoot accurately? Starter ships with greatly increased cargo space? Might do it. As is, the only way to get a better ship in a reasonable amount of time with little hassle is to just run around buying grain from ceres and selling in vulcan. That's not really acceptable for some people. And no, key bindings are not an acceptable replacement for a proper inventory screen. Sorry.None of your suggestions are even related to UI or fully formed ideas. Just pointing that out. What I read here is not actionable feedback.
3. Full 3D newtonian movement.
Nothing wrong here, move along. Seriously, move along now.
4. You just...don't have all the skills you need. AKA, you need to hire people. After studying both business management and programming throughout college, I know what I'm saying sounds really rude, offensive, and evil. After all, you don't know me. I'm just some prickuhhh-lypear who decided to lecture you. But this isn't a lecture, this is advice. You might ask "well, what right do you have to give advice?" And I know that it hurts being told "your program sucks." Because for my first year of programming that's all I ever heard. Now don't get me wrong, this game is actually REALLY good for being made by one dedicated guy. You just need someone for game design, and I know a guy, but he doesn't work for free either. Also, you *might* want to take this off steam. Since if people ask for a refund, the person gets a full refund, but steam still keeps their cut. Basically, you pay out of pocket. Or that's how I've been told. No one person has all the skills required to make a game anything like this. Leaving steam is the worst advice anyone's ever given me. Sorry, I know it's hard to be told you've just given bad advice, but you have. Steam is responsible for most of our revenue, and our refund rate is very low
6. I will, however, help any way I can in my spare time. Seriously, just ask, and I'll see what I can do to help.
7. You just now noticed I skipped 5.
8. You are now angrily typing a reply after only reading the first two points.
9. You really don't care what I think at all, since I'm such a new addition to the community, and you've been here for far longer. What newbies think really counts, but their insights can often be limited. Some of what you say is great advice. Like hiring other people, for example. But honestly there's nothing new in your post that I haven't heard a thousand times before and said myself a dozen times before. Except getting the game OFF steam. That's new. And if you'd been here for our 417 day greenlight saga, you'd realise how funny it is.
10. You're still writing out an angry reply without even skimming through the rest of these. when I read your post, I felt a) tired and b) slightly amused. No anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to fear, and fear leads to corporate IT risk management.
11. By responding to my post without including the safe word "Banana" you have forfeited your soul to me so I can repay my debt. If you're looking to enter the business of collecting souls, take some advice: there are some you want, and some you do not.
12. If you're seriously reading to this point, I'm really impressed.
13. So, I'm running out of silly mood lighteners. Anyone got any good puns?
14. You don't really have to use the word Banana, but can we still do that to mess with people?
15. I don't hate you, I just think we need to sit down and talk about our lord and saviour Cthulu.
16. Finally, last but not least, the community is small now, but if it ever gets bigger, we're going to need moderators actively looking through chat for people who are cursing, etc. We know.


3/10 I get five of these in my inbox a week
...............................................................................................................................................
Thanks for playing, thanks for posting, and thanks for your feedback!
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Re: As a new player...

Postby calkhi » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:39 am

jam wrote:-snipped, for space purposes.-

A scalding reply to a scalding person like me.
Oh jam, you know the way to my heart.
Trust me when I say most of that feedback was meant to be joking. Roughing you around to see how you reacted. This was never an application, if it was, I wouldn't be on the forum. No, only the desperate do that. I was offering my help in my spare time. I'm not a major game dev, nor am I a dedicated graphic designer, BUT I clearly stated that I know some people who would be willing to help. I did not want to lead you on that it may be free labor. That was why I kept saying that it wouldn't be free. I'm not a donkey, I'm just a Richard.
In the end, if you want proper feedback, I can lead you to exactly the issue.
Combat: The combat is stay in place, and shoot at the target. There's no constant of gravity tugging on you, therefore forcing you to remain moving and using aerodynamics in atmo. The AI targets do not attempt to move and dodge. It's a boring shootfest, basically. Lacking in depth, much like the combat of runscape.
NO WAIT! I take that back. Runscape was notably worse.
Mining: Actually this works really well. It's far more occupying than anything else I've encountered in games like this. It makes me want to continue mining, but the idea of skimming over the surface of a gas giant is just so very...HNNG.
Or it would be, if we were forced to be more in orbit that just free floating in space. I understand the grav anchors counter gravitational forces, but still, I feel as though using the orbital mechanics of reality even in such an advanced time of space might be to the game's advantage.
UI: A full in depth tutorial of how it works (In its entirety.) would greatly help this, but won't fix the core issues of 1. inventory management should be simple and easy to do. No need to type or assign macros. 2. Dropdown menus and windows are your friends. As proven by microsoft...WEEELLL, kinda.
Skimming: It wants to be so epic. So very epic, but it falls short due to the lack of basic orbital mechanics. I can't skim the surface of the gas giant, making slight adjustments to ensure I can skim another swath of the patch I was skimming. No orbit, just force. It makes things that should be so EPIC feel so...boring and mechanical.
Exploration: Not gotten to it, still trying to skim up enough hydrogen.
Colonization: Based on ceres, pretty damn good.
Building a space station: Not gotten to it, still trying to explore.
That being said, this game can actually RUN on my craptop. That's feppin amazing. This three year old, beaten up thing didn't even get top of the line hardware for its time, yet you've managed to make something that RUNS, and runs WELL, on my laptop. I'm thoroughly impressed by that. Kudos.
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Re: As a new player...

Postby eternialogic » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:04 am

Trust me when I say most of that feedback was meant to be joking. Roughing you around to see how you reacted. This was never an application, if it was, I wouldn't be on the forum. No, only the desperate do that. I was offering my help in my spare time. I'm not a major game dev, nor am I a dedicated graphic designer, BUT I clearly stated that I know some people who would be willing to help. I did not want to lead you on that it may be free labor. That was why I kept saying that it wouldn't be free. I'm not a donkey, I'm just a Richard.

I'm pretty sure that he is not looking into graphics artists of that caliber. This game is still floating, which means that it needs some more time before there is enough funding for a better UI system. It seems to me that George is doing a pretty awesome job doing the graphics solo.

Combat: The combat is stay in place, and shoot at the target. There's no constant of gravity tugging on you, therefore forcing you to remain moving and using aerodynamics in atmo. The AI targets do not attempt to move and dodge. It's a boring shootfest, basically. Lacking in depth, much like the combat of runscape.

I cannot say for back a few months ago, but the AI in the recent releases are quite insane. They topple around making it more difficult to hit just 1 shield. They run when their shields get low, only to come back and hit your front shield over and over.

Skimming: It wants to be so epic. So very epic, but it falls short due to the lack of basic orbital mechanics. I can't skim the surface of the gas giant, making slight adjustments to ensure I can skim another swath of the patch I was skimming. No orbit, just force. It makes things that should be so EPIC feel so...boring and mechanical.

You have me there, it feels as though there is a very very small 2-5km area in which you can get the gas. This mechanic does get you valuable resources though, which is why it is so difficult.

In the end, I think that the two-man army developing this game is in good hands. Sure, it seems that George has had a somewhat rocky start on the beginning of the game, but the later game content rocks!
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Re: As a new player...

Postby battlepopit » Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:05 am

I think overall the (very) limited viewpoint of newbies is very important. They have a viewpoint that most of us no longer have. Many times very off the mark and full of mis-conceptions. But that is important. It lets us know how the game looks to someone just starting. Those mis-conceptions are indications of a miscommunication of ideas. The difference in how the game really is and how they perceive it. They point out areas where maybe more work needs to be done to make certain aspects of the game less muddy. Hindsight is 20-20. they do not have that option. I actually love to read what newbies think of the game. Sometimes I think "yeah they got that one right" other times I empathize with painful memories of my own. Sometimes I just ROFL because I know how they will realize later just how wrong they were on that point. Regardless of outcome I think it would be great to have a stickied thread for newuser comments. I want to urge all newusers to post after a week of playing and at regular intervals. I for one promise I won't laugh at you-- too hard.

But honestly there's nothing new in your post that I haven't heard a thousand times before and said myself a dozen times before.

HA HA "you got that one right JAM" we are trying to wear you down. uh.. is it working yet? :lol:
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