Excuse Me, Jam?

Discussions of sales, marketing, offers, word of mouth techniques etc
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davh62

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Re: Excuse Me, Jam?

Postby davh62 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:07 pm

MM online platforms we already have, having another won't drive traffic. Traffic is the key I learnt this the hard way. The best way is to farm keywords via google pay per click. RAMs poll thus far shows that players have mostly found the game through online search. Hit the correct search phrases & you hit the best conversion % to sales. When you hit the happy balance your advertising spend versus sales essentially pays for itself.
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Re: Excuse Me, Jam?

Postby rmartz » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:33 pm

Moneyman wrote:Don't you think $3k would go a long way advertising in online platforms (word-of-mouth) rather than conventional ad plays?


If I understand correctly, that is some of the plan. I am already in several of those forums trying to talk up Ascent without overdoing it and making myself too annoying. One reason why I created the poll was to see if anything had developed yet, which I doubted. 5-10% of people scan the forums. Rock, Paper, Shotgun is where I am putting most of my efforts. Feel free to join in. It is free and any can post. We need to do it as a by product of our game play. It should not be a targeted rush of us to spam the forum.

The challenge is getting info in front of massive amounts of people. We forum hounds think others love them too. The reality is more do not read than read. Ads have to be where the numbers are. I am not a PR wiz by any means. We rAMISH tend to shun publicity. Jam has done a lot of research on all this. I am trying to follow his lead.

I can remember when he took out a facebook ad. Lots of response and a good influx of players, yet the negativity was crushing. They all wanted a completely finished, polished, and often violent game. Finding a way to target the ads to those who are seeking something different might be wise.
Moneyman wrote:We are looking for smart people with life experience who value being in a player community.


Yep, some of that needed targeting.
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Re: Excuse Me, Jam?

Postby Moneyman » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:28 pm

:mrgreen: davh and RAM .. I get your points but you don't seem to get mine. :roll:

:arrow: I don't mean, say to go to Facebook and talk up Ascent .. I agree that is a waste of time. :evil:

:arrow: I mean advertise Ascentthespacegame forum .. that would be an extension of Facebook (say) into Ascent. :ugeek:

--- :idea: Get the prospects into our territory .. then we talk people-to-people not space addicts.

--- :idea: The point of being a platform member is not to talk-up Ascent but to provide in platform information.

:idea: Stop thinking space game and start thinking about the wide ranging conversations we have in-game.

:!: One reason some platforms are successful online platforms is they have partners.

:idea: These platforms are too big for Ascent style chat .. you need the platform to assist our advertising.

:arrow: Remember, Ascent is unique .. forget space game .. Think Community of smart, life experienced people. :)

:?: Don't you think that player community plays better than another space game?

:idea: Recruiting is an winnowing process .. there are space addicts in a big crowd of community addicts.

--- :arrow: Its in our forum that we winnow down to space addicts
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Re: Excuse Me, Jam?

Postby LadyHawk » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:52 pm

Interesting…thank you Davh for the insight into the business of advertising.

And I also agree with MM about targeting the advertising. So if Jam is looking at paying for Google click words to advertise…may I suggest a heavy focus on stuff like “Mature Community” and “PVE” to reach the right potential players.

Its not just about traffic, as Ram so clearly demonstrates with the tale of what happened when Jam went with the Facebook promotion.

We do get traffic, even now without a new advertising campaign in progress. I calculate an average of 6 new players a week wander through. Some of them only stay a few days, some a month or two, only about 2 I can think of that have stayed longer and those are not all that active. On top of it, I am seeing some of the veteran players start to drift away. I saw several of them that haven’t been around much lately come in on Christmas Day, ask if Jam had been around, etc. and leave again. (Which was the final straw that lead to the rant that started this thread LOL…sorry about that, guys. I really do just love the game and can’t stand to see it look like it might be dying)

Ram, thank you for the insights on Jam. I do kinda think we need to be careful about attaching labels like introvert or extrovert. I think most here in Ascent have the impression that I’m an extrovert and that CmdrHawk, who rarely says a word, is an introvert. Face to face, its completely the opposite…I completely clam up in a crowd and he will talk to anybody about anything for hours on end. So, if Jam says he’s got more extrovert in him, maybe he does in situations that are different than the ones you interact with him in.

Even if he were a complete extrovert, I can’t imagine a more difficult experience for anyone than trying to talk to his community here in game and being mobbed by requests for all the stuff people want to be fixed.

He’d be safer just posting a greeting here in the forum once in a while, and it would mean so much…to me at least. Don’t the rest of you like to see a sign from him now and then?

And a little more transparency about what’s going on…what’s being worked on…what known problems have hit a roadblock and probably won’t progress for awhile. Jam used to put up ‘State of the Game’ posts…but the last one was in April…that’s a long time. If he’s not comfortable posting updates like that himself, could he delegate it to someone like you Ram, who talks to him regularly anyway? It gives us more fuel to deal with new player expressions of dis-satisfaction…to try to help engage them in the work of building the community and game rather than trashing it and walking away.

Kk, I’ll shut up for awhile now….and RAM thought HE could get long-winded LOL
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Re: Excuse Me, Jam?

Postby rmartz » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:29 pm

LadyHawk wrote: saw several of them that haven’t been around much lately come in on Christmas Day, ask if Jam had been around, etc. and leave again.


This may be because Jam, for a couple years, gave out a Christmas present of a new BP to those who were around. Some may have been wondering if they got something. I know Wulf came in checking to see if we had gotten anything. So history may have been driving that. That dog is always begging. :lol:

Oh, that reminds me I was supposed to do something for him. Now if I can just remember past the end of this post ... Squirrel!
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Re: Excuse Me, Jam?

Postby Altairus » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:52 pm

On the running the business side of things, I can completely understand.

We have a small business which I work "full time" in, and for about 3 years, we couldn't pay me a salary at all...the cash had to stay int he business. Now, I eek out a small salary, but could never just support myself, thank "whatever" that Achernar earns an honest buck :)

Start ups are difficult in any industry, and on line gaming has to be one of the most competitive around. Ascent has a great start, and player retention - I have to agree - is the most important for a game.

Unfortunately, it is a bit of a Catch-22 where you have to have content to retain players, but you have to have the players to have the time and money to code content.

The player base may seem to be more mature, but I have a feeling there are younger players who appreciate the non-PVP aspects of Ascent. That is the main target audience. If you aim it at mature players, you could easily lose out on younger players that don't require PVP. However, younger players want more to do - I think it has something to do with the generational erosion of attention span, but I could be wrong - but JAM needs the time and cash to be able to add content. Catch-22.

I don't have a solution for this conundrum. Pay per click can work, but can also be a very expensive excercise in futility.

I would like to see the game grow and thrive, though my meagre skills don't allow me to contribute any more than my own experiences in a start up, and an understanding of the challenges that JAM faces.
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Re: Excuse Me, Jam?

Postby Moneyman » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:38 pm

:mrgreen: Thanks LH and Altairus for posting your thoughts. :D

:D LH, I'm always reflecting on what you are thinking when I'm posting to your threads .. affects what I say. 8-)

:!: My brother Tom, an industrious guy, did pay for clicks for his Insurance business .. smart guy .. succeeded with other strategies.

--- :idea: What worked for him required a lot of grey cell pumping and a lot of try-this-try-that follow through. :ugeek:

--- :) The fifth year in the Insurance business .. Was a long time ago for my brother Tom.

:!: And, Tom was never alone .. a lot of us have and still do help my brother Tom .. in his Insurance business. :D

:arrow: JAM might learn a thing or two from Tom about getting customers.
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Re: Excuse Me, Jam?

Postby davh62 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:54 pm

Pay per click does work if used correctly. Google shows keywords "Weight" so you see & control expenditure. My latest business(of a few) in construction is only in year six. My customers are mostly 70% new with a firm order conversion of 32% . The 70% are farmed form keywords. The cost of the keyword advertising is rolled into the total fee from finished orders then portioned for on going advertising. This allows the building of a "war chest" for advertising. It could work for ascent also if rolled into game price. Obviously it needs a bit of starting capital to achieve.
Player retention does seem to be an issue but initially it's about sales of the current product. I do think there is enough room in the games market, lets face it a every year brings a whole new generation of players into gaming.
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Re: Excuse Me, Jam?

Postby Wulf » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:26 am

rmartz wrote:
LadyHawk wrote: saw several of them that haven’t been around much lately come in on Christmas Day, ask if Jam had been around, etc. and leave again.


This may be because Jam, for a couple years, gave out a Christmas present of a new BP to those who were around. Some may have been wondering if they got something. I know Wulf came in checking to see if we had gotten anything. So history may have been driving that. That dog is always begging. :lol:

Oh, that reminds me I was supposed to do something for him. Now if I can just remember past the end of this post ... Squirrel!



but it worked didn't it?
I came to see what Christmas special was happening.
it's a great way to reach out to excising player base and former player base. the other MMO I play always has a special about 4 times a year that they send a note to all current and former players, it's a great way to keep the game as active and a reason to poke your head in to see what's up. usually as a special event, like an easter egg hunt, Christmas gift/special, summer is usually a 'fun' thing like a new skin or fun item. and lastly is Halloween an some special event with a spooky motif.
Lastly it's a sign that things are active and not dead. I realize Jam is not a big company etc, but a sign on the Apollo station with 'happy holidays to all' would be a nice.
It's to late for Christmas but new-years is soon and fireworks at Apollo would be nice to say the game is actively being worked on.
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Re: Excuse Me, Jam?

Postby Moneyman » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:22 pm

davh62 wrote:Pay per click does work if used correctly. Google shows keywords "Weight" so you see & control expenditure. My latest business(of a few) in construction is only in year six. My customers are mostly 70% new with a firm order conversion of 32% . The 70% are farmed form keywords. The cost of the keyword advertising is rolled into the total fee from finished orders then portioned for on going advertising. This allows the building of a "war chest" for advertising. It could work for ascent also if rolled into game price. Obviously it needs a bit of starting capital to achieve.
Player retention does seem to be an issue but initially it's about sales of the current product. I do think there is enough room in the games market, lets face it a every year brings a whole new generation of players into gaming.


:mrgreen: davh, this is what I really want .. I'm learning about you .. far more important to me than opinion / counter opinion.
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