Nio and Tin Market in MZ3

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Re: Nio and Tin Market in MZ3

Postby Loke » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:49 pm

Moneyman wrote::mrgreen: Sorry Loke, I'm guilty of blaming the messenger.

I discovered that someone, not currently in-game, did that big buy. I'm annoyed.

Maybe you should learn from your mistake before getting annoyed at yet another player?
I can guarantee you that the big buyer have done far more than you to lower the prices, so maybe that someone should be annoyed at you? ;)
I dont mind though, just poking. I do respect that you admitted to your mistake, not all would bother doing that.

And to maybe make myself a bit more unpopular:
There has been a lot of people whining about high prices over the years, but only a handful can brag about actually doing something about it. If you dont like the situation about something, then try do something about it and dont complain about what others are doing ingame. It will even give you a long term challenge and a goal in the game, increasing the fun (I promise!). So do something constructive or shut up :evil:

President wrote:I tease and poke him about it solely because he teases me and pokes me about things

The annoying part is that you just enjoy the attention, which kinda ruins my point 8-)
Callsign: Fraaggii or Loke
Senator Loke of Primo Spe, 8086, New Horizon, Skadi, Darkfield and Niu Heimar

Statistics for Nio and Tin prices: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3427
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Re: Nio and Tin Market in MZ3

Postby RAM » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:01 pm

Loke wrote:The annoying part is that you just enjoy the attention, which kinda ruins my point 8-)


ABSOLUTELY!!
"The UNCA is not your boss!" ~ Jessica Steele
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Re: Nio and Tin Market in MZ3

Postby Loke » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:10 pm

Moneyman wrote: Direct buy / selling of n/t is apparently an in joke.

Uhm, no? For 2 years there was no nio or tin for sale anywhere, except ridiculously priced on GM (should we compare whit the sell price that used to be around 1 million per ton? :lol: ), so from what I can see it has improved a lot! And it has become far easier to know whats a fair price, we have quicker trades and all buyers and sellers can always find what they want at current market price (controlled only by supply and demand).

Im quite proud of the effect the market has had, so wanted to take this opputunity to brag a little 8-)
Callsign: Fraaggii or Loke
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Statistics for Nio and Tin prices: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3427
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Re: Nio and Tin Market in MZ3

Postby RAM » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:39 pm

And I have to admit that Loke's comments about gates to the core are part of all this.

Image

Each gate takes 400k of each nio and tin. That would build a lot of ships.

The reality is it takes me about a week to mine what is needed for each gate pair. There are others helping, so that week of mining is spread out to others.

The challenge is that demands of that level do take massive excesses out of the marketplace.

While Loke's market is buying at a high price, others are not. The sad thing is if this was all bought by an inactive player, as what is being suggested, then 5 million tons of each just got taken out of game play and the credits were dumped into game play. Not good for any economy.
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Fan Fiction from an old timer - RAM Memories
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Re: Nio and Tin Market in MZ3

Postby Loke » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:06 pm

RAM wrote:And I have to admit that Loke's comments about gates to the core are part of all this.

Image

Each gate takes 400k of each nio and tin. That would build a lot of ships.
Would you mine that amount if you wasnt building the gate? If not, then I dont think it affects the open market at all, since you provide both the demand and supply yourself

The reality is it takes me about a week to mine what is needed for each gate pair. There are others helping, so that week of mining is spread out to others.

The challenge is that demands of that level do take massive excesses out of the marketplace.

While Loke's market is buying at a high price, others are not. The sad thing is if this was all bought by an inactive player, as what is being suggested, then 5 million tons of each just got taken out of game play and the credits were dumped into game play. Not good for any economy.

Credits I receive from selling at Nio Tin Market is set aside for buying the same amount back. So that money will not re-enter the economy without there being a equal supply of nio/tin sold to the market, available for new buyers.
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Statistics for Nio and Tin prices: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3427
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Re: Nio and Tin Market in MZ3

Postby Loke » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:09 pm

Since we are on the subject, let me share a story:

Ones up on a time ther was 2 players, the miniac and the Carbon Lord.
The miniac was out mining one day, gathereing thousands of tons of valuable n/t.
The very same day, The Carb Lord had been jumping back and forth, trading carbon in the mean/time and earning billions of credits.
When the nigth came the Miniac started up his shipyards to make modules for a large project he had planned for mon/ths.
The Carb Lord also wan/ted to start up his shipyards, since he needed new ships for his trade fleet. Unfortunately he did not have the n/t needed for this. So he went over to the Miniac, wanting to trade n/t for credits.
I can pay you billions of credits for your n/t, the Carb Lord told the Miniac, and you will be rich as me! They agreed on a price and both were happy with having enough n/t and credits to move forward on their projects.

The next day was the same as the first. The Carb Lord got even more credits and the Miniac had again gathered impressive amounts of n/t.
When the nigth fell, the Carb Lord again wanted to trade credits for n/t with the Miniac. But the Miniac still had most of his credits, he had only used a few millins of the billions got yesterday, and had no need for more.
But since the Miniac was a nice guy he agreed to make a trade, because he knew that the Carb Lord would not be able make anything useful without n/t.

On the end of the third day the Miniac broke his thumb, so he would not be able to do more mining for a week. Fortunately he had been mining so much the last 3 days, he just had enough n/t to keep his shipyards busy while his thumb was healing.
The Carb Lord was smiling widely when he came to visit the Miniac, because the Carbon prices had been high this day, and he had made twice as much credits as the day before.
So he told the Miniac that now he could pay ten times as much for the the n/t, and wanted to buy all the n/t the Miniac had.
The Miniac was concerd with the progress of his project if he even gave away just a few tons of n/t. So if he was going to make a trade this time, he wanted to make sure he got something worth the loss in return.
He asked the Carb Lord if there was anything else of value or services he could offer. But here was not. The Carb Lord only had a few ships with the most basic modules, designed only for hauling. Nothing that would be useful for the Miniac.
The Carb Lord had to go home without any n/t, and his shipyrads stalled.

The days went by, and at the end of the week The Carb Lord was tired, frustrated and angry. He had not been able to construct his new trade fleet as planned, which was critical to bring enough food to his carbon producing colony.
His people were rioting, denied working until food was brougth in. The Carb Lord was now desperat, and went searching for the Miniac.
After visiting over a hundred solarsystems, he was able to locate him in a astroid field. The Miniac was out mining again, now that his thumb was healed and he was able to steer the ship.
The Carb Lord yelled out on comm to the Miniac: I need n/t, give me all you have!
He had forgot all he had learned about manners. The Miniac hated rude behaviour, and got furious when he heard the The Carb Lord yelling at him.
I gave you all the n/t I could spare a week ago, and you only gave me useless credits in return, the Miniac screamed back on the comm, and this how you thank me??
Before the the Carb Lord could even answer, the Miniac quickly manouvered his ship, now pointing directly at the Carb Lords ship. The enourmus mining beam turned on full power, starting to heat up the Carb Lords ship rapidly.
In just over 40 seconds the ship reach 2250 degrees Kelvin and disintegrated into fragments spreading out in empty space.
The comm went silent, and the only sound the Miniac could hear was Dave6000: Let`s blow up another one...
Callsign: Fraaggii or Loke
Senator Loke of Primo Spe, 8086, New Horizon, Skadi, Darkfield and Niu Heimar

Statistics for Nio and Tin prices: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3427
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Re: Nio and Tin Market in MZ3

Postby Moneyman » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:35 pm

Loke wrote:

And to maybe make myself a bit more unpopular:
There has been a lot of people whining about high prices over the years, but only a handful can brag about actually doing something about it. If you dont like the situation about something, then try do something about it and dont complain about what others are doing ingame. It will even give you a long term challenge and a goal in the game, increasing the fun (I promise!). So do something constructive or shut up :evil:


:mrgreen: Actually, I am doing something about n/t prices which is, effectively, a different approach (however often done behind-closed-doors) to buy .. sell n/t in huge quantities.

Barter, with a profit motivation, to encourage more mining of n/t ... i. e. increase the supply.

Ship buy index link: http://forum.thespacegame.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3477

Of course, until game population surges, my effort will appear in the shadows.
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Re: Nio and Tin Market in MZ3

Postby Loke » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:41 pm

Moneyman wrote:
Loke wrote:

And to maybe make myself a bit more unpopular:
There has been a lot of people whining about high prices over the years, but only a handful can brag about actually doing something about it. If you dont like the situation about something, then try do something about it and dont complain about what others are doing ingame. It will even give you a long term challenge and a goal in the game, increasing the fun (I promise!). So do something constructive or shut up :evil:


:mrgreen: Actually, I am doing something about n/t prices which is, effectively, a different approach (however often done behind-closed-doors) to buy .. sell n/t in huge quantities.

Barter, with a profit motivation, to encourage more mining of n/t ... i. e. increase the supply.

Ship buy index link: http://forum.thespacegame.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3477

Of course, until game population surges, my effort will appear in the shadows.


The part you quoted was not about you, many people have been whining long before you joined, and since you are doing something its not about you at all.
Callsign: Fraaggii or Loke
Senator Loke of Primo Spe, 8086, New Horizon, Skadi, Darkfield and Niu Heimar

Statistics for Nio and Tin prices: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3427
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Re: Nio and Tin Market in MZ3

Postby RAM » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:46 pm

Loke wrote:Would you mine that amount if you wasnt building the gate? If not, then I dont think it affects the open market at all, since you provide both the demand and supply yourself


I would mine maybe half of what I mine right now. I am hitting my fields pretty hard and seeing my yield values go down from almost 6000 per col to 4000 per col. This increases my mining time by 50%. The lower the yield, the more mining time will be required unless I spend a VAST amount of time searching for old abandoned fields.

I have to say, I was anticipating one gate a month, maybe two months. Right now, we are going at about 2 gates a month. Way higher than that I think we can maintain over a long period of time. I worry about burnout. I have seen it happen many a time before.

The challenge of bringing your market prices down to healthy levels right now carries that same worry about burnout. Player base is pretty low right now. I see no reason why we would have a massive nio/tin demand other than a few gates, of which those working on them are supplying most all the needs.

We have to learn not to stock pile nio and tin like we do iron and carbon. One thing I noticed happening several previous times that I tried to crash the nio/tin market. Credits are so free, that most will pay high price without an issue. I think Black Sky will be a good fix for that as the dynamics of long term player retention is not as key as short term revenue streams.
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Re: Nio and Tin Market in MZ3

Postby Moneyman » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:22 pm

Loke wrote:Since we are on the subject, let me share a story:

Ones up on a time ther was 2 players, the miniac and the Carbon Lord.
The miniac was out mining one day, gathereing thousands of tons of valuable n/t.
The very same day, The Carb Lord had been jumping back and forth, trading carbon in the mean/time and earning billions of credits.
When the nigth came the Miniac started up his shipyards to make modules for a large project he had planned for mon/ths.
The Carb Lord also wan/ted to start up his shipyards, since he needed new ships for his trade fleet. Unfortunately he did not have the n/t needed for this. So he went over to the Miniac, wanting to trade n/t for credits.
I can pay you billions of credits for your n/t, the Carb Lord told the Miniac, and you will be rich as me! They agreed on a price and both were happy with having enough n/t and credits to move forward on their projects.

The next day was the same as the first. The Carb Lord got even more credits and the Miniac had again gathered impressive amounts of n/t.
When the nigth fell, the Carb Lord again wanted to trade credits for n/t with the Miniac. But the Miniac still had most of his credits, he had only used a few millins of the billions got yesterday, and had no need for more.
But since the Miniac was a nice guy he agreed to make a trade, because he knew that the Carb Lord would not be able make anything useful without n/t.

On the end of the third day the Miniac broke his thumb, so he would not be able to do more mining for a week. Fortunately he had been mining so much the last 3 days, he just had enough n/t to keep his shipyards busy while his thumb was healing.
The Carb Lord was smiling widely when he came to visit the Miniac, because the Carbon prices had been high this day, and he had made twice as much credits as the day before.
So he told the Miniac that now he could pay ten times as much for the the n/t, and wanted to buy all the n/t the Miniac had.
The Miniac was concerd with the progress of his project if he even gave away just a few tons of n/t. So if he was going to make a trade this time, he wanted to make sure he got something worth the loss in return.
He asked the Carb Lord if there was anything else of value or services he could offer. But here was not. The Carb Lord only had a few ships with the most basic modules, designed only for hauling. Nothing that would be useful for the Miniac.
The Carb Lord had to go home without any n/t, and his shipyrads stalled.

The days went by, and at the end of the week The Carb Lord was tired, frustrated and angry. He had not been able to construct his new trade fleet as planned, which was critical to bring enough food to his carbon producing colony.
His people were rioting, denied working until food was brougth in. The Carb Lord was now desperat, and went searching for the Miniac.
After visiting over a hundred solarsystems, he was able to locate him in a astroid field. The Miniac was out mining again, now that his thumb was healed and he was able to steer the ship.
The Carb Lord yelled out on comm to the Miniac: I need n/t, give me all you have!
He had forgot all he had learned about manners. The Miniac hated rude behaviour, and got furious when he heard the The Carb Lord yelling at him.
I gave you all the n/t I could spare a week ago, and you only gave me useless credits in return, the Miniac screamed back on the comm, and this how you thank me??
Before the the Carb Lord could even answer, the Miniac quickly manouvered his ship, now pointing directly at the Carb Lords ship. The enourmus mining beam turned on full power, starting to heat up the Carb Lords ship rapidly.
In just over 40 seconds the ship reach 2250 degrees Kelvin and disintegrated into fragments spreading out in empty space.
The comm went silent, and the only sound the Miniac could hear was Dave6000: Let`s blow up another one...


:mrgreen: Of course, in those early days, there was just one Miniac and one Carb Lord.

Since that time, the original Miniac and Carb Lord and many just like them came and went.

Note, how self-centered the original Miniac and Carb Lord were ... So were many that came after them.

Slowly, as time passed, some didn't just come and then go ... Some stayed like: Loke, RAM and fleas.

Each was different and brought a lot of skills and ideas with them ... Not just mining and hauling.

And, as the User-of-code changed the way things were, a new idea awakened: a community of players.

It was a primary thought coming from the User-of-code but it took Miniacs and Carb Lords a bit to appreciate.

We are the gold not piles of materials or fleets of ships or even prospering businesses.

We are far more than a Miniac or a Carb Lord or even a builder of this or that.

We are a community of friends who enjoy working together and learning from each other.
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